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From Corrections to College

chris@graduatecommunications.com





https://scribie.com/files/32f449f5118d4e18a5d4751a7f8cecb37eef818b

0:00:11.9 BROOM: Hi, welcome to higher education coffee and conversation. I'm share Brown, CEO of graduate communications. Today I have two guests, Dr. Nora Kennedy is coordinator of Palomar College transitions program. Transitions is a corrections to College Program that helps previously incarcerated individuals adjust to the college campus and successfully began or resumed their higher education. My other guest is Santos Rosado, who is a polar college student and who was paroled in March of 2020 and has dedicated himself to pursuing a higher education and is now set to transfer to a four-year university. We have a great conversation around the stigma surrounding incarcerated students, the challenges incarcerated students face as they make the transition from prison to community college, and what students need from an institution in order to succeed. We also talk about ways in which colleges can share student stories to help break down stigmas and how everyone on campus can benefit from the experiences the formally incarcerated bring to the college community, it's an honest and lightning conversation, and one that I hope like everyone appreciate more than ever, the role that colleges play in transforming lives through education. Okay, well, thank you both for being on the podcast.

0:01:33.3 BROOM: I'm absolutely thrilled to have you both on, and Santos, you are the first student that's ever been on the podcast before, so this is a first for the podcast.

0:01:45.3 S2: So I wanna start off by having you both introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and your connection to the college and the work that you do, and so Nora, I'm gonna start off with you and have you fill us in a little bit about the work that you do and then how you met Santos and we'll take it from there.

0:02:07.4 BROOM: Great, thank you, Sheryl. Well, I'm Dr. Noreen and I work for the transitions program at Palomar College. And what we do is we work with currently informally incarcerated students to support them as they go to college, and what that looks like is anything from helping people to figure out the technology that we're so reliant on now, to helping with housing and transitional housing employment, wrap around services, and then also we of course, do things like help with enrollment, connect students to educational plans, computers and laptops, we also have a summer program where a cohort of students takes two classes together, and those classes are focused on issues around incarceration and mass incarceration on a systemic scale, and also on a personal scale, so all of our students in that program are... They're formerly incarcerated or systems impacted, and together they take a counseling, student success class and a sociology class that focuses on mass incarceration, so that's our on-campus program. We also have an off-campus program that takes place at the vista detention facility, where people who are incarcerated currently have access to credit classes and to professors and support specific to their unique needs while being incarcerated at the jail.

0:03:32.1 BROOM: So that's a little bit about the program, how Santos and I met is that I was recruiting for the summer program last year, and I actually can't quite remember, it might have been through a probation officer, I let Santa's finish that thought, but Santos is one of our students last summer and immediately rose as a leader in this space because of his experiences and also his education that he received while he was incarcerated, so Santa has continued his studies at Palomar. And we met as I was recruiting him. It was sort of a challenge. It was really a challenge, not sort of... Because I had just started at Palomar in March, and about a week into my time at Palomar, we moved to the remote remote work environment, of course, so recruiting students was no small feat, but Santa was amazing as a student and continues to be so... And

0:04:34.6 S2: Santos, tell us a little bit about yourself to in the program and how you ended up at Palomar. Because education is so important to me. Usually when I give my story, I kind of like to go from the past to the President. I would just like to say that I was born in Puerto Rico, and I moved to New York City when I was two. I had a very troubled childhood because aside from living in poverty, experience rejection and event and Bandon issues, and about a seven, I tried alcohol for the first time, and today I understand that aphorism, the introduction of alcohol for me was a way for me to escape from all the negative emotions that I was feeling at the time. As we know that alcohol is a mind-altering substance, and as long as I continue to dream, unless I felt depressed or over my rejection and abandonment issues as I got older, I became involved, criminal activity. For me, this was a way of seeking attention that I thought I was deprived of as a child, by the age of 16 to 17, I was already going in and out of county jails, at the age of 25, I was introduced to cocaine and heroin, so at this point in my life began to spiral out of control in 1996, I received my first prison term, I got four years for residential bury, I paroled in 1988, and I found myself returning to prison farms later, I received a 10-year sentence for robbery when I probe 1993, I was out for five months and committed another robbery, and this time I was tried and sent up to the California's three strikes law, where I received the Termen 36 years to life.

0:06:24.7 S2: Today, I realized that drugs and alcohol had always been to Catalyst to my negative behaviors, and it wasn't until 2011, deterrent actually convinced me to start taking college courses, I still didn't have a grasp for complete understanding as to what happened to me in my past until I began to get these courses in psychology, sociology, these areas that actually help us to understand, get a clear understanding of ourselves, so I continued on and focused on my studies and once again, gaining understanding and insight into my negative behaviors in the past of who I was, so I not only was motivated to continue my education, but I encourage others to do so as well, so I proved in 19... March 19, 2020, I was sent to a transitional housing place, which was Amistad when I got there, I was able to demonstrate everything that my education allowed me to... And I believe it was in June 2020 that I met one of the workers, one of the actual counselors at Avid who was also... Or had attended Palomar College. And through Him, he encouraged me that because I explained to him that my goal and my passion is to reach out to people...

0:08:04.6 S2: And drug and alcohol counseling. So he encouraged me to take classes at Palomar at which time was when I was introduced to Dr. Nora, and from that point on, I continue to enroll in classes, the first one was the transitional phase or the transitional program, I felt that perhaps those classes at the time, I had already taken the counseling in the sociology, and so I decided to move on and stick with the transitional phase, the transitional program itself of the formerly incarcerated students, because I knew that at this particular part of the program, I could be helpful in many ways, perhaps giving my story and just interacting with all these guys that are just coming into the system today... I'm proud to say I feel good about where I am today. I still go through struggles because it's been a long journey in prison, and my transition is slow, I encounter a lot of ups and downs, roller coaster ride and social anxiety, but that's okay as long as I stay focused on my education, I realized that today education is key to understanding not only about ourselves but others, and yeah, this is where I got to understand who I was, starting with my underlying issues as a child, and that's me right there.

0:09:43.0 BROOM: You've had an amazing journey, and congratulations on making it, making it out and your sobriety and your dedication to education, it sounds like you're on a good path forward, and even during this particularly challenging time where you have to be remote, it sounds like you're doing really well so kudos to you. Congratulations, it's no small feat. And while you were talking, I was thinking about how... We always talk about community colleges and education being transformational, and so many times we focus on the transformation of kind of a traditional student, somebody coming out of high school, or an 18-year-old or a 20-year-old, and you are by definition a non-traditional student, so I'm wondering for those people who listen, what has made your success as a student possible, what type of assistance have you needed and what more could the colleges do to help support you on your journey?

0:10:50.7 S2: You know, again, I realized at a later stage, Durance ration, that education was important to me to create a value system for myself, to always ask myself, what means more to me, what is more valuable to me? And been incarceration member-rated people won't understand until they've been in those shoes, but I've always focused on my family, my friends, and those people who have always supported me throughout my incarceration, so there was no other way for me to roll except if I went and changed my behavior and the only way I was able to use me to do that was through education, is I had to find the tools, I have to gain clarity into understanding, well, what didn't I know then that I can do now and change that. And so this educate, again, education was the key factor for me to escape my negative and criminal lifestyle into who I am today in regards to college, I always teach that we have to develop a support system one way or another, and I always... Surround yourself around positive people. I spoke to know earlier, unfortunately, because of this covid social distancing and we have virtual connection, however, we still have the opportunity and ability to create a positive social network, and always they connected with one another.

0:12:38.4 S2: Just opening doors and everywhere we can... And for me, I stay connected with the students, those who wish to speak with me, and once again, I connect with them with Dr. Nora and other faculty or professors from the college, in the event that I have some questions or some advice regarding my role down college itself, what is it like now in this online environment, is that something you had access to when you were incarcerated, did you... No, absolutely not. And one thing that they discouraged was contact with the community, I guess computers and technology has always been a part of security concerns for the institutions... For prison institutions, I went through coastline Community College polymer Day and we had this distant learning program, so we were only able to connect with the colleges through the staff there, the educational staff, there was actually no contact with computers.

0:13:52.6 BROOM: And now here you are doing a podcast through Zoom. Using technology, probably in ways that you hadn't envisioned you would... Yes.

0:14:02.7 S2: Has it been a big challenge for you? It has because, you know, since I've been incarcerated for so long, the only access to computers I had were just working on programs for the prison itself, for the education programs, the only types of programs that they are created within the prison setting, coming out and I've expressed this to Dr. Nora and other students that have helped me throughout throughout my journey is technology, I just had the language of it, the connecting, and it's been very frustrating for me in the beginning, but again, having a social network, we just connect with each other and this always help in so many different ways than it was in prison when I was incarcerated, but technology is still continues to be a frustrating moment for me, but I've learned to cope it, I've learned that everything that we learn new just take steps is a process to it, and as long as we stick with it, then it just gets greater... Gets better than that. And again, I'm very grateful and honored to be on this podcast program because it just shows me that not only have the doors open, because I've taken on a positive direction, but there's so much more to explore to...

0:15:31.5 S2: What I've been missing all these years. Well, it sounds like you have such a great... A great attitude and a real dedication, and I was reflecting on how hard college is just for the average person, it's difficult to go to college and to work, and then on top of it, you know, you've had to learn computers and technology and re-adjust to life outside of prison, I'm sure. Or this is where your transitions program comes in and supporting students

0:16:03.6 BROOM: As they make that transition, and besides technology, is there any other things that colleges can do to support students who are moving back into society... Well, I think... I wanna just mention one thing about the technology piece, and Santos has been amazing in so many of his peers who get out of doing seven years, 10 years, Hour many years while locked up, and then getting out during this time of covid where everything is reliant on technology, and I wanna give an example of that for me was so powerful, my students, they just continue to teach me every day, all day long. I had a student, I sent him a link to something, and I fully expected him to be like, okay, there's the link, well, he got back to me and I'm so glad he did because he said, I looked at your message and I didn't really know what the link was... So instead of saying, Here's a link to this zoom side or whatever, I was focused on him being able to use Zoom, he just didn't know that the underlying text that turned blue was what a link was, so I had to take another step back and really think about what it looks like to come out into the world during a time that is 100% reliant on this technology, and just be sure to open up to my students and be accessible so that they could come to me and say, I don't know what you meant by a link, and just really think about things in those terms, where there's no technology...

0:17:35.6 BROOM: There is some technology prior to coming to Palomar, I taught at the visit attention facility, and I did teach a computer literacy class, but there was no internet, so they could have been expert in Word... Are these individual programs? But the Internet was completely off limits for obvious reasons, that are huge securities concerns in the jails and prisons, so I think the technology piece is a part of it, we... Palmar has been... The palmar Foundation has been amazingly supportive to our students, including getting laptops to all of our students, which has been just a life changer, the internet piece, I think is more difficult, and having students be able to get just really good stable Wi-Fi has been an issue. We're looking at opening up a parking lot or a parking garage so that students can go in and get WiFi, that's been difficult with even hot spots, so I think just being there for your students as far as support systems for transitions, number one is setting up the network for each other. So like Santos and other students, they are close with each other, when someone's struggling with sobriety, they'll contact Santos and talk it out with him, if Santa's struggling with the technology piece, he relies on his colleagues and reaches out to them and he has a partnership with...

0:18:56.3 BROOM: At least one or two other students that they can just reach out there and be there for each other, we also do weekly check-ins with students, and actually, we just had to check in this morning and are talking about adding more check-ins where I just would have open office hours, so that students can just pop in and say, Hey, because I hear from students individually quite often throughout the week, but I really want students to be able to rely on each other because they know what they're going through more than I do, and I think that they can just be better support systems for a lot of things that are the motivational pieces throughout the day, or the things like when students start community college that they're afraid to ask these questions, that they feel stupid for asking particular questions by asking another student is much easier in a lot of ways, so setting up these networks and these cohort programs really has been effective for the transitions population, and then also just navigating the systems, it's really unfortunate that by virtue of just all these systems, it's really difficult to enroll in college, especially on your own.

0:20:05.6 BROOM: So we do have access to programs like Trio that I connect students with, and then someone from TRIO will come and help them fill out the CCC apply, and also the face, which I think is huge. So having those support systems, and then we have a dedicated counselor who works specifically with transition students to work on their ed plan, and that's been really powerful as well, and I think probably at the core of our program is one person, which I just... I just can't say enough. Amazing, positive things about Professor Martin lava, who is formally incarcerated, and he's now a professor at Cal State San Marcos after having gone through community himself, he set up these transitions programs throughout the state, and so he teaches our sociology class and students are able to ask him these questions as a professor and as a formally incarcerated scholar that I know certain things, but not by Professor Martin does because he's been through it himself, so having those role models who are at every step of the way, someone like Professor lava, and also someone who maybe has been in the program for just a semester, and then someone else who's been in the program for a year, just having these people who are available as a network to support students at every step of the way, and I think that when we have these high-touch programs like the transitions program, it really shows like if we're doing all these things with transition students, if we were to have the funding we we should and could be able to do that with all students, because what we serve for transition students applies to all of our community college students, it's just that transition students have these unique situations around incarceration, but I think that the practices that we have with transitions can really apply across the board...

0:22:03.9 BROOM: Yeah, and you know, there's so many great things that you touched on, your example about the links, not just for our students who are formally incarcerated, but for all incoming students, there are so many things that they don't know how to do, and sometimes as educators, we've been in the system so long, we just think, Oh, you should know what a syllabus is, and you should know how to access canvas, and you should know what Blackboard is, and that's not the case, especially for students like Santos who have been removed from society and don't know that terminology, so what an important reminder that we have to take a step back and remember that some people need some time just to learn our systems, but also I think even more importantly, that concept of a support system is key, especially for adult students, feeling like you're part of a community with people who've experienced life the way you have, I would assume that helps keep you... You motivated and gives you connections that you can kinda lean on people when you're feeling like you need some extra help, so what an amazing... It's just an amazing program.

0:23:18.0 BROOM: It's really impressive. And something else that I think is impressive as Santos, Nora has told me that while you were incarcerated, you earned three separate degrees, you now officially hold more degrees than I do. So what is next for you? Now, what are your long-term goals?

0:23:42.5 S2: I focused on... My major degree was psychology in social behavioral science, and once I discovered what happened to me, what took me on that path of a criminal lifestyle where rather than going out into society and hurting so many people, including my family... Now it's time to turn things around and just pay it forward, now that I have come to a phase of my life, that clear understanding of who I was paying it forward is so important to me. I understand today also that once again, like I mentioned, the drugs and alcohol had always been a catalyst to my negative behaviors and I'm focused more on addictions, addiction can be real us from what we really wanna do in life and try to get some programs we have a, we have the AA to try to focus on addictions and try to get people to change that. My passion today, and I have registered as a drug and alcohol counselor is to hopefully reach out today today's trouble you, and it's not just necessarily with addictions, but with behavioral problems, we have mental health in other areas that I'm able to reach out and help with my education today.

0:25:20.1 S2: So my passion today is to pay it forward in every way I can... I have thought this through many times, if given the opportunity to engage in the community and be relieved from prison, Dr. Nora, she and the faculty at Palomar College, they create these programs where the students can get involved and volunteer their time for these... To pass out food and just to reach out to these individual individuals in the community that actually need help, and rather than the apathy, it's more of an empathetic type of approach and knowing that they're not alone, we have to... We have to reach out to these people going well or another... And that's the way I feel today. I'm gonna continue to strive in that direction, and yes, today again, my passion is to reach out to the troubled youth. I know that I may not be able to change the world, I might not be able to help everyone, but my motto has always been, since I have discovered who I am today, is that, to the world, I'm only one person. But to one person, I can be the world. I

0:26:47.4 BROOM: Love that, and I think I wish you the best. I think it sounds like you've defined what your journey is and you're dedicated to making it, and I hear that you are helping to transfer right in the fall. You've applied to universities. So do you feel... I mean, you haven't really been on a college campus because it's been come, it's been this time of covid, and how do you feel... Do you feel welcomed? Do you feel challenged at all? Is it difficult for you? Being formally incarcerated, what are some of those kind of personal challenges, you

0:27:25.9 S2: Know, I do feel challenged, and I like to use that word because of my transition, a given out nine months, I feel comfortable on a social level because of the change that I've made in my life, and I know that when I engage with people, that I'm able to articulate whatever it is that I need to get across, and hopefully that they can understand who I am and what I'm trying to say, or college campuses, once again, connecting with people is not a problem for me because I just wanna communicate, I wanna connect so badly, but technology areas where I need to learn new avenues with this virtual connection with the colleges. It's okay, it's great. And again, the challenge, maybe even to stepping up to a university that... He has always been my dream. There will always be challenges, and I think those challenges can be overcome, just take it one step at a time, and getting connected with the right people, having a social network as I mentioned earlier, hopefully just knowing that people that are on your side are willing to help can guide you down that road. I know this is gonna be a process for me, it's gonna be...

0:28:52.1 S2: I don't wanna say a long process because I've been to nine months and I feel... I feel as though I have my feet well planted on the ground, I don't get as frustrated as I did maybe five years... Excuse me, five or six months ago. Now, knowing that I have connected with students and faculty and Dr. Nora nano, she's tremendous. She's always been in our corner, helping all the formal incarcerated students try to connect with each other and just make them feel so welcome, and I think that's very important in anyone's life is knowing that when you have someone on your team to make you feel welcome, make you feel accepted that it just... It makes your transition or the processing of information is so much simple, is so much easier. And I believe that's how I will be able to overcome any challenges that may come my way, it's just staying connected with the faculty, the students, and then when this covid thing is all over and we are able to get on campus again, I'll run into some challenges but I feel that I think it would be a smooth transition for me... Well, that's so wonderful to hear in that I was so excited to have you on and to have you share your story because I think that there needs to be more visibility into how we're serving students like you, and I think that the more that we're able to share stories and learn about...

0:30:30.6 S2: For our formal incarcerated students than the more welcome environment we can create because then the stigmas or the fear are removed, because we see that Santos, you've done amazing things with your life and have dedicated, you know yourself to education and improvement. And I think your story is so important to towel and

0:30:51.9 BROOM: Nora, I was wondering, I know Palomar has had programs for a long time, and do you have stigmas on campus that you have to battle, or do you feel like the environment's really welcome for colleges who might be considering having a program like yours, how do you communicate that to the campus as a whole and create that welcoming, supportive environment? That's a great question, Cheryl. I feel like palmar in particular has been incredibly supportive of transition students, President of the interim president, Jacobo has been... He started the program with Martin lava and has been a champion, an ally the whole time. I'm sure there are people on campus who maybe aren't as receptive, but for the most part, our program is visible, our students are well loved, we have faculty who have asked to be allies and who attend our events, and I have actually, I have lists of faculty who I refer students to and say, Hey, if you take a class with this professor or that professor, you can tell them things like, I can't be in the lecture because I have to go to my parole meeting, or I have to check in with my program, people have been incredibly supportive.

0:32:13.9 BROOM: I think on campus, the police department has been amazing, in particular, with special needs, sometimes we've had students who have been asked to not take classes or to not be on campus and have been reinstated after spending some years rehabilitating and improving that they can come back on campus and everything will be safe, so things like that, re-instituting, just always giving students the benefit of the doubt and re-instituting any privileges that that might have been taken away prior while struggling with addiction, and I really feel like antitrust reminds me about the criminalization of addiction and how that is for people individually and collectively, and I just feel like looking at addiction and the AIDS aspect of all of this has been the pivot for Santas and so many people like him, there's definitely a thriving community of campuses that have programs for formally incarcerated students, including the UC campuses, UC San Diego has the undergrad Scholars Network also. In San Diego, San Diego City College has a thriving program, so there is definitely more visibility and more support formally incarcerated and system-impacted students. Thankfully at Palomar, we are definitely an integral part of the campus, now being on campus, I'm not sure because I've only worked on campus for a week, so I can't answer your question better, but I know that virtually there has been a lot of support for our students and that has...

0:33:53.7 BROOM: And our students consistently outperform their peers who have not been incarcerated, which I find interesting, and same with that at the Vagal, our retention rate... Or success rate is like 90% or something. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. And of course, unfortunately, due to the cycles of mass incarceration or the population at the jail is disproportionately men of color who are just really doing really excelling in that space, and professors who teach in the jail all say, without exception, this has been a highlight of my 40-year teaching career. There's something about being in that space, which is people are in their trauma as you're teaching them, being locked up, however, for one, students have time and space to focus 100% on school, and they don't have to worry about basic needs like food, housing, they're supporting their families, and they thrive. And they do really, really well. And that, I think is an interesting dynamic. I've had students who get three days while they're in jail, do the program on the on-campus and not do well, and it's like the same student in a different environment will either thrive or not, depending on the environment and what kind of...

0:35:14.5 BROOM: The student I'm thinking of, he had to obviously get a job and support his family and wasn't able to focus on school anymore, so it really speaks to the need for wrap-around services and resources for our students. I love the focus on visibility and I had... I think I told you this one store on Santa, so we haven't talked before today, but I had done a project with the college in California who has a really successful program similar to transitions, and we were doing some work on their website and some of their college administrators wanted to highlight the program for formerly incarcerated students on the website, and it ended up in the Shia debate because other administrators didn't want to broadcast or didn't want visibility that the college was serving this population and fear that it would scare other students, and it was a very emotional discussion. And I don't know what the college ended up deciding 'cause I didn't work through... I left, so I did my job and I left. But I think that that focus on visibility is critical if we want to bring to light the issues with incarceration in our country, if we wanna support students as they're reaching new goals, we have to be open and honest and visible with what we're doing and the populations that we're serving, so I'm really happy to hear how well Palomar is doing that, and I think you sound like a a tremendous model for other colleges across the state and probably across the nation as well.

0:36:50.7 BROOM: Oh, thank you, Cheryl. It's been... Today, we were talking about motivation with students, and the question that I put forth was, how do you stay motivated and focused, and the students all went through and Santos talked about turning negatives and deposits, which I think is exactly what the transitions program does, but then one of the students ask me, How do you stay motivated and focused? And I said, I just call one of you, because all of our students... Their stories are just amazing. Each student could have a movie or a book written about them because recruiting students for the transitions program was the most, just inspiring experience for me because every time I called the student, they would tell me their story, and it was amazing just to have the Pluto sit and listen to people like Santas who spent 33 years locked up and then was out and during a pandemic and just rolling with it and handling it and coming out on the other end with his education being in place to be a great candidate for a top university, and it's clear that he's going to continue to lead in the space and in many others and be a role model, and I think more students like Santos who come forth and say, Hey, yeah, I had this...

0:38:09.0 BROOM: This was my past, I figured it out. Here's where I am now, and people humanize a formally incarcerated person like Santas and say, Well, think it was amazing. I didn't know that he had done all this time, he was just this really nice guy in my class who helped me, so once that stigma is addressed, I think that people will understand and come forward and say, Yeah, I have family who've been incarcerated, the shame isn't on the people who have been incarcerated. For me, I feel like the shame is on our systems that make it so easy for someone like Santos to be struggling with addiction, and instead of dealing with his addiction, he just gets locked up because he's in that cycle of poverty and addiction and trauma. So I think the more students that tell their stories like Santos, the better, because I think it just humanize it and it allows us to see... It's not that formal. Incarcerated doesn't mean scary. When I was teaching at the jail, before I walked into the jail, it was a little bit like I was kind of freaked out 'cause the orientation is talking about how people make weapons out of the most innocuous objects and ten...

0:39:15.4 BROOM: Get you really kinda scared to go into the jail, and I walk in and on day one, I've never had a group of students be so lovely and respectful and supportive and kind and appreciative as I did when I was teaching at the jail, and it just really got me thinking like, These are just people having a hard time... Why not just support them so that they're not having a hard time anymore to share on the buck and add to that if... I mean.

0:39:43.4 S2: Of course, yes. When you mentioned about the stigma, this is something that even in prison, when I facilitate a lot of groups, we went over a lot of issues about what... The stigma, if you will, that we have to face when we are released from prison, and if it's not to employ it, it's people on the street and just a fact knowing that we've been incarcerated, they have this fear, the word incarceration, that there's a criminal out on the streets, but the administration that you were talking about that we're having a hard langtry to decide whether or not you want broadcast a speaker or someone and family incarcerated student over the air. I think that no doctor... No, she touched on a lot of good tips about the stigma that we face, I believe that given the chance and a lot of people don't allow us the opportunity to tell our stories and through programs such as this one, and Palomar and other areas that allow incarcerated people or formally incarcerated people to just actually give their stories so that they know, so that people can hear so that we can understand where we've been, and to know that especially if we're on an educational path, we have something that is gonna gear us a more positive on a more positive road, so...

0:41:22.0 S2: I don't wanna say, I mean it does add me, but it's not now to me, the stigma again, that we face when we come out of prison, and I believe that it's about the information, once people understand what we've been through and that we are no longer that person, then I believe that opportunities will come, doors will open, people can perhaps lay down, put down their garden and allow us to continue in society and just try to give back as much as much as we can, but I just give us our stories, hearing us out and understanding where we've been, I think it's important for everyone, we have stories to tell.

0:42:13.3 BROOM: That is some great closing thoughts as we wind down our conversation, and the exact reason I wanna use Santas and Nora to come on as administrators across the country, listen to this podcast to think about how can we tell the stories of our students equally and give all students a chance to shine and to move forward with their education, how best support them and help them realize their goals and their dreams, whether or not they come from a challenged background or her coming straight out of high school... Right, we've gotta serve everybody and do it to the best of our abilities, and I think you hit the nail right on the habit, we need to allow visibility and stories to be shared, and that's how we're gonna build connections and ultimately help students succeed. So I wanna thank you for sharing your story, and I'm really impressed with all that you've done, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that... UCSD acceptance letter. Yes, thank you. Yes, I think that sounds like you have great things on the horizon, and I really appreciate your time and Nora, Dr. Nora, thank you so much for joining us as well.

0:43:33.7 BROOM: I thank you for inviting a Charles, but it's been a pleasure and I look forward to a time when Santos and you and I can meet on campus and say Hello... With a house down the street from pollen, this is all done. Santos will all have to go grab a cup of coffee load

0:43:54.0 S2: A couple of self is Meister, social distancing. Laura, I wanted to start, I wanted to just begin by actually thanking you and Dr. Norberto I truly hope that my story and everything else that was included, it would be helpful for others that are listening. Index basically, thank you so much.

0:44:25.0 BROOM: And I just wanna add, sharat. I think being a classroom teacher in the community college system, students are inspired by each other, and to have Santos be in a classroom with those students in high school who are struggling with their own... Their own issues, whatever those may be, having someone like Santos who was locked up and got his three degrees while I walked up and then came out during a pandemic and has succeeded for me being a young person. If I saw that, I'd be like, oh, if this person can do all that, then I can do all that and I can handle what's going on in my life too. So I think that the beautiful thing about community college is that's the space where people from so many different walks of life come together and learn from each other and are motivated by each other, and I think that's exactly who Santos is, He encapsulates all of... That's beautiful about community college and the public education aspect of community college, in that diversity that brings so much knowledge and inspiration to each other. Thank you for listening to higher education coffee and conversation. If you like the podcast, please leave me a five-star rating and discover more great higher education-related content, make sure to visit us at graduate communications dot com, and with that, I'm gonna say thank you for listening, thank you for the hard work you do for students, each and every

0:45:54.5 S2: Day, E.









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