Cheryl Broom (8s):
Hi, I'm Cheryl Broom CEO of Graduate Communications. Today's guest is a national speaker, a best selling
author. He's been a vice president at a California community college and now is founder and CEO of
Catapult, which is a really progressive professional development opportunity offered to community colleges
across the nation. Dr. Kevin Fleming has had an amazing career that's really been built on spreading the
message that there are careers and career opportunities out there for everybody. And, that work-based
learning and opportunities through community colleges and trade schools can get people the type of Careers
that give them a life with purpose and passion and good income.
Cheryl Broom (1m 1s):
Kevin And I dive into the importance of program marketing. We talk about professional development and the
new model that he's founded that will hopefully help educate everyone on campus about how to market. And
we have just great conversations around how to communicate to future students about all the amazing
opportunities that are out there. This is a great conversation and you're quickly gonna see why he has so
many honors and is such a, a wonderful speaker and author. I hope you enjoy the conversation with Dr.
Fleming as much as I did.
Cheryl Broom (1m 41s):
Well Kevin, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you for joining me,
Dr. Kevin Fleming (1m 44s):
Thanks for having me. It's pleasure to be here today.
Cheryl Broom (1m 47s):
You have an absolutely fascinating background. Tell me a little bit about yourself and your professional
career.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (1m 54s):
Sure. Well, I consider myself a recovering academic elitist, And I. I started, I, I said that half jokingly, half
serious. I started out the traditional university for all path, went to a private Jesuit liberal arts residential
universities. I got two bachelors, two master's degrees, And I, found myself underemployed. So I was
working in the filing room for a, now, now bankrupt and closed mortgage company. And, I had a pile of
student loan debt, It was a friend that actually referred me to a local company, And I got an industry
credential. Took me one week, 40 hours on top of, you know, over a decade of, of post-secondary education
at that point.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (2m 36s):
And it was that industry credential coupled with the formal education that lifted me outta working poverty,
And I, kind of learned of this whole world of industry credentialing and workforce development and CTE. And
then I actually got a job at the, through the state of California with the California community college system,And, that was, oh gosh, 17 years ago plus change. And, and so I've been in this, this field of career and
technical education since, but it's by accident. Like, I dunno, Sure. I don't think any child ever says when I
grow up, I wanna be a community college administrator in economic development. Like that's, it's normally
not right after firefighter and, and teacher or something. So by happenstance I kind of fell into this And, I.
Love it.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (3m 17s):
And And, I've developed a passion for it. And so I've been a, a regional labor market analyst in California.
We call 'em center of Excellence directors. I've been a CTE faculty member. I've been a dean of instruction
over current technical education at the community college level. And for the last four years I've been a vice
president. And, I. Just love, I love this field. And really focusing on systemic and regional solutions for
helping students find their purpose on purpose. So that's kind of a little bit of, that's like two decades in less
than three minutes.
Cheryl Broom (3m 50s):
Well I love, I love that term working poverty too, because I think people have been devaluing higher
education in our country. You see statistics and polls that show a decline and the belief that higher education
can actually lead you to a sustainable career in life. But I think most of those polls center around, you know,
the type of degree you had a liberal arts degree or, or a degree where there's not a lot of career pathways.
And so students have ended up leaving these liberal arts professions and then being in working poverty with
student loan debt and not having a, a true career pathway.
Cheryl Broom (4m 31s):
So you'll experience that firsthand and then we're able to fix it, right?
Dr. Kevin Fleming (4m 36s):
Yeah, and I'm, I'm not pro or anti-liberal arts. I'm not pro or anti vocational school. I'm not pro or anti, you
know, advanced placement. It's I'm pro student, right? And I'm anti mountains of debt. So I mean for me it's,
it's, it's just what's right for that person, what's right for her, what's right for him. And, and it might be a
degree in, in, in French literature, it might be plumbing and one is not, you know, shouldn't it be considered
more laudable than than the other And I think we just have this there. I say like, we have a, a love affair with
a bachelor's degree in this country and there's nothing wrong with that. And for many paths it requires that, I
think we conflate sometimes too, being well educated and being a critical thinker with also being prepared
for a career And that two are not always the same thing.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (5m 23s):
So yeah, I experienced that, you know, that one way to win kind of mentality and then found myself arguably
overeducated in debt for sure. And underemployed, not unemployed, but underemployed, And I don't know
that we really talk about that. So there's a, there's a percentage of the, of the population that goes throughthat And I think we can do better.
Cheryl Broom (5m 41s):
Yeah. And there's so many people out there who, like you said, nobody dreams of being a college
administrator, but they don't even know what type of Careers are available that are really exciting and high
pain and don't require you to go to college for four, six or eight years.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (5m 56s):
That's right. So shameless book plug. So that's why I wrote my children's book to start that conversation
early there. So the Department of Labor, here's your fun fact for the day, Cheryl for you and your listeners.
So the Department of Labor says there's over 950 jobs that exist. I can't imagine a high schooler being able
to name more than 100 of them. They, they know what they know from school, from work, from TV and from
their immediate family. That's it. So there's so many they don't need, or something they don't, they don't
know about. And they need more exposure to those. Like as a, as a college administrator, I see a lot of
students that wanna go into healthcare. So they go into nursing and I'll sometimes ask them, Oh, well what
was it about being a radiological technician that you didn't like? And I'll get the, the big eyes cause they have
no idea what I'm talking about.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (6m 38s):
Or they never heard what a sonographer was, Right? So, so yeah, there's definitely a, a role there for more
intentional career exploration.
Cheryl Broom (6m 45s):
Yeah. Tell me a little bit about this book. What is it called?
Dr. Kevin Fleming (6m 48s):
Yeah, so inspired by my almost six year old, it's called, There's a Hat for that. And it's a children's book that
just walks through different Careers or 16 industry clusters in America. So there's 16 hats that a little monkey
wears and kind of explores the different Careers someone could have. And it really just focuses on the
fundamental truth that we'll all wear different hats throughout our life and we won't have just one job or, or
one career, especially in, in the world of tomorrow where there's so much more churn and there's a little a
letter in the back for parents and guardians to kind of help them, to encourage them and help them focus on
career exploration for their child. But I just, I just saw a gap from all the books I was reading my daughter.
And so I wrote something that was more about career exploration and CTE and just helping students, you
know, encourage them to explore that.
Cheryl Broom (7m 32s):
That's wonderful. So if anyone wants to find that book, I think what they could find on Amazon, probablyDr. Kevin Fleming (7m 36s):
They can, they could, There's a Hat for that.com.
Cheryl Broom (7m 40s):
Perfect.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (7m 41s):
Thanks for the shameless plug. Yeah.
Cheryl Broom (7m 43s):
Well, speaking of random facts, I did a presentation and, and you And I were able to see each other. A
couple weeks ago, And I played a, I played a game, a guessing game, which the audience always loves.
And one of the questions was, how many American high school seniors report that their guidance counselor
never talked to them about a community college or a trade school. There was 56%. 56. So more than half of
American high schoolers have never been talked to about options at a trade school or community college.
They've only been guided in this four year Yeah. Pathway. And so there's so much opportunity to get that
message out to people early in their academic experience that there are other options for you and exciting
Careers that you can pursue.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (8m 31s):
Absolutely. And, and it's not about what you're gonna do forever, it's just what you wanna do next. Yeah.
Right. And that's what's great about this, is people can reinvent themselves. They can decide in their late
twenties that what they thought they wanted to do when they were 18, they're a different person and they
wanted to, you know, pivot and go a different direction. And so that's, that's what I love about our higher
education system in Americas. There's, there's open entry, open access, there's so many opportunities. You,
you're never in one track, right? So yeah, I couldn't agree with you more And. I'm not surprised by that
statistic. Actually. I would've guessed higher. I I think a lot of, I think a lot of folks are, oh, university for all,
but it should be university for, for many. But there, there is no one size fits all. You know, we're a three
dimensional human beings and, and we're all works in progress.
Cheryl Broom (9m 13s):
Yeah. And in fact, the statistic was higher cuz I did the same question three years ago and it was about 66%.
So I was like, maybe we're starting to make a difference. All this talking about community college and
Careers. Maybe it's starting to sink in a little bit.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (9m 27s):
You know? I think so I think the last couple of administrations, And, I think with all of the, the grant money
and talk around the career academies and career readiness. I think a lot of school districts across the nation
are changing that terminology. It used to be everyone just got an academic plan, now they're getting anacademic end career plan. So I, I think it's, I think it is evolving, but that, that'll be interesting to track maybe
10 years from now to see if it's in the forties. So we'll keep our fingers cross and keep advancing that.
Cheryl Broom (9m 54s):
Well now we have that like here in the podcast. We, so I could come back in 10 years and be like, how was
that number?
Dr. Kevin Fleming (10m 3s):
You don't have to wait 10 years to me back. But yeah, it's hopefully the trend continues because, you know,
the, the world needs poets, but we also need, you know, great entrepreneurs and, and so it's, it's really just
finding what's the right fit for, for that person.
Cheryl Broom (10m 17s):
Yeah. Now you have founded your own company kind of to take this message on the road and to really help
Colleges grow the way they talk about and really administer their career education programs. So tell me a
little bit about Catapult and, and what it is and what Colleges can get out of it.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (10m 35s):
Absolutely. And I think it'll resonate with you as a, as a former community college administrator yourself. You
know, I used to think Cheryl that you can't change the system unless you're in the system. And what I think
I've learned over my 10 is it's actually the opposite. I think it's very difficult to change the system when you're
in the system because you're, you're tied to collective bargaining agreements and politics and org chart
structures. And so you can't always advance change to the extent that you want. And sometimes an outside
consultant or, or some really intentional professional development can do more than one internal champion
or cheerleader trying to advance a cause. So birthed out of frustration, actually, a few years ago we, we
founded Catapult and it is a virtual masterclass for an entire institution.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (11m 21s):
So whether it's a high school, a high school district, a community college, it, it takes every employee from the
elected officials all the way to the cafeteria and custodial teams and gives them all a shared experience. And
so we have three different masterclass options and there's a couple layers to it, probably three layers. The
first layer is every employee gets a virtual keynote from what I would humbly say are, are the best keynote
speakers in the country on a given topic. And I'm elated that you'll be joining the Catapult family in the spring
with our CT recruitment and marketing masterclass as one of our speakers. And so we, we broadcast five
keynote speakers, and these are individuals that are in international conferences and TED speakers, they're
gonna be broadcasted at every employee.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (12m 1s):
And then there's the, the second layer is an implementation team coaching call. And here's the analogy I liketo use. We all know how to lose weight. We know we need to eat right and we know we need to exercise.
That's not a secret, but it's hard. And we know that if we get a coach, a physical trainer, an accountability
partner, a nutritionist, whatever it may be, we know that that accountability and individual tailored support
helps us to be more successful. So in this masterclass, the, the keynote is followed up by a local tailored
implementation team coaching call that is really about that institution's next steps and, and really the right
next steps to advance forward depending on where they are. And then there's also thirdly, an interactive
playbook that every employee gets.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (12m 42s):
So we actually learn I mean, think about all of the webinars and conferences we've been to, and it's just, we
sing Kumbaya and then we go back to our desks and do everything the same way we did before where it's
so hard to translate that motivation and information we got at a conference to everyone else at our, at our
institution that didn't go. So, so then the third piece is actually using learning science to spend intentional
time on reflection on practice and implementation. So those are the three levels to it. So there's keynotes,
coaching calls and actual learning and, and through a playbook that the whole institution has. So the results
I've been super excited or amazing, it's actually changing the dialogue when a whole institution wants to
advance either with the way they market and fill their classes or the other master classes we have is one is
on work-based learning and a third is on career readiness.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (13m 30s):
And, and so we're really seeing that that dialogue is advancing institutions forward. And it gets a lot of other
folks, like I imagine knowing your audience, we're a little preaching of the choir here, but it gets think about
all the other people that aren't listening to this that we wish heard, you know, what we talked about or we're
at our regional convenings, we're at our conferences that folks on, on career readiness and CTE. This brings
the best of the conference to them. And so we're really excited to, of the results that we're seeing.
Cheryl Broom (13m 56s):
Oh, that's excellent. I think you're, you've hit the nail on the head because you do go to a conference when
you see a great speaker, you're completely inspired, you have ideas you wanna bring back. Maybe you've
written them down or I used to email my president during conferences. I would email him ideas and then
once he wrote me back, This is why I don't approve your travel requests.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (14m 18s):
Too many ideas Cheryl.
Cheryl Broom (14m 19s):
Yes. Too many ideas. Then you get back in the office and, and you, you're back to work. You know, and you
didn't have a shared experience with others on campus that maybe had that same aha moment. So I love
this idea of bringing an entire campus together to learn together because things like marketing and eveninstruction aren't just one person's job on a campus. They belong to everybody
Dr. Kevin Fleming (14m 43s):
That, That's right. Enrollment management is not, you know, two or three people's job and it's every, it's
everyone from who answers the phones to who's, you know, know, pushing the button on the social media
to, to the student that's given the tour when, when, when potential students come to visit. And if they don't
understand the philosophy of recruiting and marketing and, and really understanding what market
segmentation is and just some of the basics, it's really difficult to get everyone galvanized together. And so
yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm really excited about this spring session and having you part of the CT recruitment and
marketing masterclass and we, we do cap it. So if people are interested, maybe we can include the URL or
something with the podcast notes and I'd love to chat with anyone further if they'd like to hop on board in the
spring.
Cheryl Broom (15m 24s):
Yeah. And besides the marketing track I mean you have some amazing speakers in your other track. I mean
you have, what's his name?
Dr. Kevin Fleming (15m 34s):
The Mike Row? Mike Rowe. Yeah, Mike Rose. Yeah, he's, So we're working with the Micro Foundation for
the Work Based Learning masterclass. And we have others like Heather McGowan in the career readiness
and she's the author of the book Adaptation Advantage. She does over 200 keynote speeches internationally
a year. And, and some of these are, you know, I've done this for years where I had to find a good speaker,
bring 'em to the campus, and it's a lot of work. And, and it's expensive. And so what we've done is by, by
batching and kind of pooling our money together, we get that micro caliber speaker that would never come to
a, you know, an individual school district. And now we're able to bring them to the entire institution at a price
point that we can actually afford. So I, I think it's, it's really a unique model.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (16m 14s):
People say, Oh, it's a virtual conference. Like no, it's not, it's not a seminar, it's not a conference. It's kind of
this new, this new model of how we redefine professional development. So yeah, we have 15 speakers
across three master classes currently and growing, There's a fourth master class we're looking to launch
next fall focused on faculty in instructional excellence actually. So there's a preview, no one else knows that
yet. That's the first time Cheryl, I said that out loud. So that'll be, that'll be coming next year.
Cheryl Broom (16m 38s):
So that'll be, that'll be coming next year On our podcast.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (16m 40s):
That's Right. An exclusive behind the peak. You had a curtain peak. Yeah.Cheryl Broom (16m 45s):
Well, awesome. Well, if people are interested in learning more about how they can be involved, where they
find out more information,
Dr. Kevin Fleming (16m 51s):
Catapult.com. And there's a lot of information on there. And, I do a VIP briefing twice a week and people can
hop on And, I can answer, know their questions and see if it's a good fit for them. And even if this is not like
maybe the right time for them, what I would just say to your listeners is, we need to be more intentional with
the professional development than we engage in just sending a few people to a conference or watching a
webinar isn't sufficient now and it's just not gonna move culture. It might be good for getting information, It
might be good for just learning how to, how to do conditional formatting in Excel. Like that's what a video or
webinar's great for. But when you really start talking about how do we advance our systems and how do we
improve enrollments and how do we elevate the experience that our students have coming to us, we, we
need to kind of rethink how we, how we address that.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (17m 35s):
So I would just encourage everyone to be a little more discerning about the time and energy we spend in
professional development. Cause I, I think we, we could do a lot better than maybe what we've been doing.
Cheryl Broom (17m 45s):
For sure. Most of our, most of the listeners to this podcast are marketing and communication professionals
at Community Colleges. So the marketing strand that you offer through Catapult would be a great interest to
them. And, I think they'll particularly love that the entire campus is invited to come and watch because
people really don't understand what goes into marketing and how complex and time consuming it can be.
And in fact, I was just on a call yesterday with a consortium that's looking to do some career education
marketing and they wanted to know budget and, and they had never, none of them were marketers. So they
had never considered the fact that they actually have to pay for ads.
Cheryl Broom (18m 32s):
I was like, what's your budget for, for paid ads? And they're like, Well what do you mean? Wow. And I said,
Well, if you want people to see your ads, you actually have to pay for that. Like, it's not free. It's not free, but
if you don't do it, you know, if you're just a consumer, you're just consuming things. You don't understand the
complexities of it.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (18m 47s):
Well, And that speaks to, you know, there's probably a handful of folks at every college. There might be
some marketing or business faculty. They'll definitely be like the public information officer or there might,
there's a handful of folks, I would say less than 2% that have any like, formal training in marketing. So Wow,that's illustrative. Like, you know, they, they, our colleagues need kind of that baseline understanding and
even, even if you don't get everyone at the institution, but to get enough folks to have that tipping point that
understand, oh, marketing is more than just a pretty picture on Canva that you put out on your, on your
Facebook page. But if, if no one's following it and if there's, you're not tracking and if it's not intentionally mar
you know, segmented, it doesn't really have the results people need. So yeah, it's a great, I love that. It's a
great point. I know
Cheryl Broom (19m 27s):
I love the conversations too cuz I feel like, oh, I get to educate people while, you know, helping them fulfill
their goals, but helping them educate And I, And I love what you've done with the intentionality around career
education. Because for many years I don't think that was a topic that we as community college marketers
were encouraged to explore And I. I remember in fact there were, there were philosophies going around.
Like, we don't market programs, we market the college. We don't have time or energy to talk about
biotechnology or you know, we don't have resources to go out and sell the horticulture program. And, I
remember even telling that to faculty, you know, 10 years ago, like, I can't market your program.
Cheryl Broom (20m 8s):
Sorry. And now we're seeing this whole shift in marketing where it's not enough to just say, Hey, we're cheap
and we're local. We have to start talking about programs and outcomes and salaries.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (20m 23s):
Absolutely. I think we've seen, and that's just in 10 years as you describe And I think we've seen over the
last 10 years or so, students wanna be part of smaller communities and they don't enroll in a college. They
enroll in in a program or experience. They have a goal or at least an idea of the destination of where they
want ahead. And we know our retention rates, I mean our retention rates are horrible in, in post-secondary
And, I think it's, it And that, that's a very broad statement obviously, but, but I think it's because we're not
being, we have historically not, it's been very intentional of creating those pockets of community for students.
And by marketing a program, by marketing a specific track, by marketing a specific experience. That's what
attracts students. You know, they wanna be part of pointe, they wanna be part of the, the, the agricultural
pathway.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (21m 7s):
They want to be part of that pre-med experience. And so yeah, I think we've evolved in getting more, I blame
Amazon. Sure. I think they, they they, they convinced us that everything can be tailored and custom and, and
you get your, your curated, you know, book recommendations for you. And, I think the rest of us are like, Oh,
we need to do that in education too. So I think that that CRM or, or you know, that, that that kind of real
custom communication package is new to our field, you know, new in the last 10 years. But that's what our
students want. And they, and they, they need that. And frankly, When, we do it, we see them enroll at a
higher number and they persist and, and actually complete to a higher ratio so we know what works.Cheryl Broom (21m 45s):
Yeah. In fact, we worked with a college in northern California that had started a mechatronics program and
they were so excited about the program and it's located in an area of California that has a huge industry
need. And you start, you're starting salaries like 70,000 Wow. Right out the gate. And nobody enrolled in the
classes. Well, because students have no idea what mechatronics means. And it's very intimidating. Like it's,
the coursework looks very intimidating. So they, you know, it was one of those Colleges that thought, Oh, if
we offer it, they'll come.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (22m 17s):
If you build it , they will come.
Cheryl Broom (22m 19s):
They'll just come, they'll show up.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (22m 20s):
You know, And, that brings up an interesting nuance that arts terminology is not everyone else's terminology.
And you know, I, we had a mechatronics program, we renamed it and then we renamed it again. And, I
almost. I have joking a couple years ago I said, you know, we should rename this program, play with robotics
and make a lot of money because that's what it, that that resonates. That's what it is. It's robotics that's at,
it's at its core. Right.
Cheryl Broom (22m 44s):
It's so interesting you said that. Cause that was, so we met with, we did a meeting with the marketing team,
with the faculty and then with industry who were hiring. So we did a, a workshop, a marketing workshop just
to learn as marketers, like what is Metron? We don't even know what it is. How are we gonna sell this if we
don't know what it is? And, that was went, our marketing ended up centering around, if you like, building
robots, working with your hands, working on cars. Industry was like, hey, some of our best people we hire
were mechanics because they love getting in and fixing and building. Yeah. And then we learned that
veterans are perfect candidates for being mechatronics because they, that's the type of the education they
got in the military.
Cheryl Broom (23m 30s):
So yeah, we put together a campaign centered around like, if, if you like this, then this field's for you and
their enrollment tripled in one semester and it was just changing how you talked about the program.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (23m 44s):
See, I love that. That's speaking to the relevancy of the words that we use. You know, words have power,
right? And, and When, we stand in front of someone and say, you know, do you like to, to play with cars? Orhave you ever, have you ever built a bicycle or try to build a computer? Like those are tangible experiences
some residents might have had exposure to that is very transferable. And it speaks to maybe the likelihood
that they're gonna resonate with that program instead of just saying, Yeah, come, come take our
megatronics as degree program And. That doesn't mean anything. Not great illustration.
Cheryl Broom (24m 14s):
I looked at the curriculum, And I was like, if I was a student, I wouldn't I engineering and pre-calculus, like,
no thank you. But then when you dig into like, oh, what you're actually doing, like this is really cool. Like this
is really exciting.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (24m 27s):
You know, I've been doing some work with a colleague in Australia and they're a little ahead of us in terms of
the terminology of how they market their programs. And, I think we're finally shifting from, like we talked
about, from, from promoting just the college to promote to promoting programs. I think we're starting to
evolve also to promote here's the destination and if you want to get into this field, you know, then here's
some pathways. We talk a lot about guided pathways and, and end in mind and that career focused well in
Australia, they're a step ahead I think, of us. And they're actually now focusing on if these are the problems
in the world you wanna solve, then here are the jobs you can get into and here's the pathways in order to get
there. And they're taking it like one step further to really have that, that relevance. And I've been playing with
that a little bit myself.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (25m 7s):
Like what would that look like in a community college campaign to not even really focus on the programs
with occupation, but the larger impact or the problems that it solves in the world. And then guiding students
to that because that North star might be immovable even if the occupations and industries churn. Yeah. So,
so there's there's a lot of different layers to that in, in that messaging.
Cheryl Broom (25m 27s):
Yeah. That is really relevant, especially to fields like biotechnology where you're helping develop solutions,
whether that be like drugs or, you know, things to combat hunger. Like there's so many amazing outcomes
of the work And that draws people to that field. Right. Even more than salary in a lot of cases. It's like, yeah,
you're help solve major problems.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (25m 52s):
Absolutely. I just was reading something this weekend, I think it was a LinkedIn article where, you know, it's
not about salary anymore and we're seeing that with whatever you wanna call, you know, it's happening.
Other great resignation, the great reshuffle, the great resign. Like people are saying, you know what, I'll take
a 30% cut, you know, for an salary to do what I love and to, and to have maybe some flexibility and time or
space or to feel that I'm, I'm empowered or to feel like I'm making a contribution in the world and with peopleliving longer than they used to, just from a lifespan perspective. People that are quote unquote retiring are
not going to Florida to place shuffleboard. Like they're starting a new company, they're still working on a, on
a social justice problem or, or starting, you know, their new entrepreneurial pursuit.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (26m 34s):
So, so yeah, I love that approach of really helping them identify like, hey, here's, here's kind of the, the larger
mission regardless of money, but here's where you can fit in and make a difference. I think that impact is
speaking to residents now more than it did before. So from a marketing perspective, okay, what does that
mean in terms of our, our, our posts and our terminology, and how do we tap into that with a little bit more
intentionality?
Cheryl Broom (26m 55s):
Yeah, exactly. Tapping into people's purpose, their sense of purpose. Because at the end of the day, that's,
we all want to make a difference. We want to have a purpose. And if you can capture that in your marketing,
in your words, then you can really make an impact on people's lives. And that's I mean, that's my purpose in
marketing is I I want to impact people's lives.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (27m 18s):
That's right. And, and our, we're not, we don't sell a widget. We, don't get stock options, right? Like we're,
we're selling opportunity, we're selling, you know, a change in trajectory. I put out something recently for my
college and it said, you know, whether you wanna, you know, start or if you wanna reinvent yourself, like if
you wanna pursue and level up or if you wanna completely abandon what you've done and, and, and
reinvent who you are. Like here are some options. And, I think people are are looking for that. Like you said,
they, we wanna transform lives, we wanna change the trajectory of their lives. And, and that's what we're
selling. You know, we're And that we are selling, We shouldn't be afraid to, to say that we are promoting and
marketing and, and recruiting and selling. That's not a dirty evil thing. It's just we sell something that's very
affordable that can have life-changing impact.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (28m 1s):
And there's nothing wrong with that, but we still have to connect it to their why and, and their purpose. For
sure.
Cheryl Broom (28m 7s):
Selling does cost money people.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (28m 10s):
So do paid social media ads. Yes. You have to have a budget for that. You do
Cheryl Broom (28m 14s):You do have to spend money on it.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (28m 16s):
Absolutely.
Cheryl Broom (28m 18s):
Well, I am really excited to be one of your speakers this spring. I'm, I'm really looking forward to it. And I,
encourage the listeners to check out your website to see if their institution is interested in signing up, and
also to look at your children's book. And you had a brand new book that came out because when I saw you
speak a couple weeks ago, I picked it up on the table. And, I'm reading it right now. So tell me a little bit
about this new book.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (28m 44s):
Yeah, thank you. So this is, you know, actually I, I made a comment to before, like a lot of what we do in
marketing is about words. It's about language. So I, I'm actually, it's, it's pre, the copy you saw show is pre
publication. It's actually gonna be launched this next, well, in a week or two. But by the time your listeners
hear this, it'll be launched. It's called Words Are Your Superpower. And it's really a motivational illustrated
book for adults that really talk about the power we have within us with the power of language and how to,
well, how to harness it intentionally and, and for good and to be aware of the power of our words. Be that in
a casual or professional or personal settings. And so I, this was just something that was, that was in me. It's,
you know, it started again inspired by my, my daughter.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (29m 27s):
You know, her words are, are so impactful and they can, they can really change the tone of the day and the
family, you know, by by if we have a good attitude or not. And so it was actually just something I've been
working on a few years. So it's a, it's a passion project and And I envision it as being the kind of book people
can gift to a someone that's graduating from college or graduating from high school. And it's a kind of a gift
to encourage and motivate and empower and inspire those that are either timid, choose their words, or
maybe feel like they're this silent minority or maybe even the silent majority, but to, but to really empower
them to use their voice and, and make a difference in the world for good.
Cheryl Broom (30m 5s):
Well, I don't wanna give away too much of, but the one part that impacted me that I liked was the power of
silence. Hmm. And I thought that was such a great point, was there's power in our words, but there's also
power. When. We choose to remain silent.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (30m 25s):
You know, I'll share with you Cheryl, when I was, when I was seeking an illustrator for this book, I had a
number of folks that I was talking with and, and looking at, and one of the women wrote to me and saidexactly what you said. She says that the section of the book that talks about silence, she said, resonated
with her so deeply. Her father recently had a stroke and couldn't speak for a while. And so she started to well
up, She shared with me and cried when she read the initial copy because she was experiencing in her own
family the power and the impact that silence can make for good or sometimes, you know, for not. And and so
I said, I found my illustrator like done, like it connected so deeply with her and, and Olivia, she did such a
great job with the book. But, but, but yeah, our words, our silence, the, the, the, the spaces and the gaps and
the, the tonality, all of that is so impactful and is, as I'm speaking to, you know, you have a, an audience of
communicators.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (31m 16s):
I'm sure they can all appreciate that, that every word that we use or don't use is, is it matters and is
important.
Cheryl Broom (31m 24s):
Every word matters. Well, I think my listeners have a lot to learn from you, whether that be through your
books or through participating in Catapult. So I'm really excited to make the connection with you and them,
And I, hope that they visit your website and learn more about what you have to offer.
Dr. Kevin Fleming (31m 41s):
Cheryl thank you and thank graduate Communications. I'm, I'm elated you're joining the Catapult family. And
Eddie, everyone that participates is in for a treat with you and with the coaching calls next spring, And I, just
wanna encourage your listeners, you know, keep, keep learning, keep growing, you know, keep on doing the
work. What we do is never been more important for the field to alter those trajectories and to really impact
people's lives. So I thank everyone, I wanna thank everyone listening for doing what you're doing and for
doing, taking the time to listen to podcasts like this and to, to partner with Cheryl and her team and, and
really make the world a better place through what we speak and, and type and shoot and deploy and send.
So thank everybody out there for what you're doing.
3 (32m 24s):
Thank you for listening to Higher Education, Coffee and Conversation. If you like the podcast, please leave
me a five star rating and to discover more great higher education related content, make sure to visit us at
GraduateCommunications.Com. And with that, I'm gonna say thank you for listening. Thank you for the hard
work you do for students each and every day.