Higher Ed Conversations Podcast Episode 61 Transcript
Cheryl Broom [00:00:04]:
Hi, I'm Cheryl Broom, CEO of GradComm and host of Higher Ed conversations sponsored by
EdTech Connect. Higher education is evolving, but one challenge remains at the forefront.
Student success and retention. With nearly 30% of college students dropping out after their first
year, the need for accessible and inclusive learning environments has never been greater. In
this episode, I'm joined by Carey Dukes, the author of A Guide to Thrive, the Roadmap to
Becoming a Successful College Student. Carey is an expert in student retention and
accessibility in higher education. He brings a wealth of experience and innovative strategies to
help educators, administrators and policymakers rethink how to support students on their
academic journeys. And here's something special.
Cheryl Broom [00:00:54]:
Carey is offering to our podcast listeners a free copy of his book to anyone with a. EDU email
address. All you have to do is send him an email to claim your copy. His email is
carey@therci.net and we'll put that in the show notes as well. It's carey@therci.net so whether
you're an educator, administrator, policymaker, or a parent like me and you're invested in
student success, then this conversation is for you.
Carey Dukes [00:01:29]:
Let's get started.
Cheryl Broom [00:01:31]:
All right, Carey, I'm so happy to have you here on the show today. Thank you so much for
joining me.
Carey Dukes [00:01:36]:
Thanks for, thanks for inviting me, Cheryl. I'm happy to be here.
Cheryl Broom [00:01:39]:
We were just talking before we hit record that we have tried and failed to meet up for this
podcast six times now. So I'm expecting a great discussion now that we finally have our
schedules aligned.
Carey Dukes [00:01:51]:
Well, we've talked so many times, how could it not be? I think it's going to be good mostly in
reconnecting time frames and it's been both of us, it's not been either one individually.
Cheryl Broom [00:02:00]:
Yeah, it's just been a while. It's been a wild year and you have such so many great things
happening. But before we dive into your book, I want to talk to you a little bit about your
background. So tell us who you are, where you work and what makes what you're doing so
special.Carey Dukes [00:02:17]:
I grew up the son of a Baptist preacher and so I grew up in the low country of South Carolina.
I'm currently an assistant professor for supply chain at North Greenwood University, a Christian
institution in northern South Carolina or near the upstate in South Carolina, just above
Greenville. It's in Greenville county and I teach supply chain operations, project management,
business related classes to all the way from freshmen all the way through grad classes for the
university. Now the there was a 35 year, 30 year. That sounds like an awful long time. But I was
about 30 years where I was actually working in supply chain. I designed logistics solutions,
whether it was warehousing, transportation or international moves for multiple third party
logistics companies, as well as manufacturers and distributors. So I spent my career doing that
and now that's what I'm teaching at the university level.
Cheryl Broom [00:03:15]:
Great. But you really have a passion for retention, for making sure that college is accessible.
And so how does this career and supply chain get you to where you are today? Like, what's the
intersection between those things?
Carey Dukes [00:03:31]:
Well, it's the reduction of waste. All right? Supply chain people have a fascination with reducing
waste. I mean, it is our everyday day desire. And we do a lot of implementations of new
technologies, new operations, new business processes. So we spend the majority of our time
thinking about when we do a transition, first of all, making a process better than it was before.
But because of those changes, are the people going to be successful with those changes. So I
cannot tell you how many implementations I've done because I don't know, over 30 years, it's
just ridiculous. But I've been always, and not just myself, all the people who work in supply
chain, we think about trying to reduce waste to then eventually get to continually improving a
process.
Carey Dukes [00:04:20]:
So when I look at, you know, students and I talk to students, I think about those things in the
same way that when I first started teaching freshmen, I, well, graduates actually starts with
them. When I would interview them, there were things they didn't, they didn't think that way.
Right. They weren't used to being taught that way. And now with freshmen, I see the transition
from high school to college and they've not been taught that way either. So as part of that
research, when I went back to get my doctorate, I was always interested in trying to figure out,
well, okay, we spend all this time reducing waste and continually improving with process design
and implementations. Why are some successful and some not? I was curious about that. So my
research topic for my dissertation was that is there a way to predict whether or not an
implementation is going to be successful before you launch it so it doesn't fail? And the
precursor is really readiness.
Carey Dukes [00:05:19]:If an institution or individual is ready for a change, they're going to be more successful with that
change. And so that's the model that I built as part of my doctoral dissertation. And it's the
foundation for the book that I eventually wrote to help, you know, college, high school seniors
and college students change into a better student by recognizing what elements they were
lacking to become Ready.
Cheryl Broom [00:05:42]:
That is so. It is so fascinating because I think you're 100% right. I mean, when we, if you just
think about changing things in your personal life.
Carey Dukes [00:05:51]:
Yeah.
Cheryl Broom [00:05:52]:
You, if you really want to make a major change, if you're going to be successful, you have to be
ready.
Carey Dukes [00:05:59]:
There's no question about it.
Cheryl Broom [00:06:00]:
Yeah. Mentally ready, maybe financially ready. You at least have to understand what's going to
be asked and expected of you. But yet with college, there really isn't like a singular process to
get people ready for it.
Carey Dukes [00:06:16]:
No. Well, and it's not even thought that way. You know, professors don't necessarily approach it.
College students don't, coaches don't. You know, I do a lot of work with coaches and they don't
think that way. You know, and that's because everybody has their focus and nobody's thinking
about it in. Because I actually think there's three major. In my opinion, you can disagree if you
want.
Carey Dukes [00:06:38]:
To me, there's three major transitions. There's the high school to becoming a freshman. There's
the a college senior or a high school senior going into the work world and then your marriage.
To me, those are the three most. I don't want to use the word traumatic or traumatic, but they
are life changing events and the ability to be prepared and ready for them a lot of times dictates
the success of your attempt to do that. And I see it with my students because I give all of them
the Readiness for change assessment and we talk about their results and they are starting to
see it as well because it's if you don't know what you don't know, how are you supposed to fix it
if it goes wrong?
Cheryl Broom [00:07:20]:Exactly. And I just wanted to talk to you about this assessment. So when you and I first, you
know, started talking before this podcast, you sent me a preview of the book which is now out so
people can, can order it. And I saw the assessment in there as part of the package.
Carey Dukes [00:07:36]:
Yeah, it's in the book.
Cheryl Broom [00:07:37]:
Yeah. So I had my son who is starting to go through the college process take the assessment.
So, and, and that was really fun because he sat, he was into it and it's hard to get him to do
anything.
Carey Dukes [00:07:49]:
Oh, that's good. I'm so glad to hear that.
Cheryl Broom [00:07:51]:
I said, hey, will you help me have some research for my podcast? It's like, ah. And then he
started taking it and he got really into this and it was easy. It wasn't anything.
Carey Dukes [00:07:59]:
Yeah, yeah.
Cheryl Broom [00:08:00]:
But we had some good conversations from it. So tell me like what, what are you assessing?
What type of questions are in there?
Carey Dukes [00:08:06]:
We assess six variables. There's six variables that make up readiness, and the first being
context, which is where do you. And that particular assessment. All assessments are in those
six variables. But in the readiness for college assessment, we're measuring what in for instance,
context is our first variable. And that variable really measures where are you coming from?
What's your life like before you get to college? What's your family life like? You know, questions
like, do you. Do you have anyone support you outside of, you know, in the college environment?
Do you have anybody at home that cares whether or not you're going to be successful? And the
reason we do that is because that kind of frames the background of somebody. And in a
business setting it is the same thing.
Carey Dukes [00:08:50]:
Do you have somebody that's supportive of that? So in that particular instance with the, with the
college assessment, if a person has a strong context score, it is a very strong indicator for
ultimate success. If they have a low, it doesn't mean they won't be successful. But the folks with
low context, which means there's not a lot of familial support, you need to be acutely aware of
that so that you don't become a victim. It's really easy to become a victim if you have a low
context score. Then the next two is efficacy, which is do you believe. Not. Not your mama, butyou. Do you believe you can graduate from college? Do you think you can be a successful
college student? And that one really goes to your self worth, right? It ties to your.
Carey Dukes [00:09:38]:
Where you think you are in the scale of delivery. And we did this one in mental health and that
one was an eye opener for a lot of mental health patients. And then the third item is really
informational assessment. Do you know what you need to do to be successful in college? And
that's where the book really comes in with a lot of the tools and tricks and. But that's a
shockingly no number. And the thing is, Cheryl, I agree because I didn't know what I needed to
be when I. I would have failed or not fail. That's not the right word.
Carey Dukes [00:10:07]:
I would not have been ready when it comes to informational assessment of a college curriculum.
And then the next two are really commitment and belief in your belief that you can complete it,
but your commitment to completing. And that's, you know, and then, sorry, not. Not belief value.
Do you value it and are you committed to it? Because, believe it or not, just because mom and
daddy wants me to go to College doesn't mean you're as a student value a college degree. And
why waste the money if you, if you can't convince them to demonstrate the value, which I spent
a lot of time in the book doing that if you have a low value score doesn't mean you can't
eventually get there. But if you're not there, then that could explain a lot. And I see that with a lot
of students here that, that some of them don't necessarily think about a college degree is going
to help them.
Carey Dukes [00:10:55]:
And then finally the final variable is change related effort. And so you do it all and think about
diets and things like that with people. What are you doing to become better prepared to be a
college student? And so those are the variables that I measure. And that's what your son, that's
the assessment that he took those questions around those ideas.
Cheryl Broom [00:11:17]:
I, I, I wrote all of those down as you were talking and I just like, I'm like, I want to do this almost
with everything in my life. I mean besides you can we, we.
Carey Dukes [00:11:27]:
Do, I applied, I come from trucking. Right?
Cheryl Broom [00:11:29]:
Yeah.
Carey Dukes [00:11:30]:
And I sat down with a mental health counselor once, a buddy of mine from, from really high
school. I knew him in high school, he's now a PhD in mental health. And he said, could this help
me in mental health? And I said, well of course it could. I built a three tier assessment for them.
One, are you ready to go to counseling? Because if you're not, you're going to bomb midwaythrough. Are you getting the connection with the counselor that you all are needing to have and
if you're not, then you can make a change. And finally, because I never understood mental
health with how do you finish mental health? It was are you ready to exit mental health? And so
we built those three assessments around that. We ended up doing three, 4,000 of those, those
types of assessment with mental health because you can apply it to anything.
Carey Dukes [00:12:14]:
It's not, you know, it's not. But college is such a dramatic change from high school to college that
I think it's a particularly interesting place to apply 100%.
Cheryl Broom [00:12:26]:
And as I'm watching from personal experience, my son going through, beginning his college
search, there's so much being placed on how do you apply, how do you write your essay. Now
it's time for sat. It's the process of getting to college, but there isn't preparation on what are you
going to do when you get to college?
Carey Dukes [00:12:47]:
I agree, I agree.
Cheryl Broom [00:12:49]:
That's missing completely.
Carey Dukes [00:12:51]:
Yes. Everybody, everybody. This transition from high school to college. As far as what type of
school you're going to go to, there's tremendous amount of resources there. Lots of people are
in that space. But did you pick the right school? And if you did, do you know how to tackle it
when you get there? And you know, these first year experience programs try to do that, but it's
really hard with when you're trying to build community, which is what most of them really focus
on, then this is how you do college. Because I try to really limit the scope because I do a lot of
project work. I don't want to, I don't want a lot of scope creeping.
Carey Dukes [00:13:28]:
What I'm trying to help them with, I'm trying to say let's stay in this lane. So what I call academic
Armageddon, which is week four, when I see the poor kids walking around because they just
bombed four tests because they never knew you had four or five tests in one week in high
school. That never happened. Well, guess what? It happens in every university.
Cheryl Broom [00:13:47]:
I mean my son's school doesn't allow them to assign homework or give tests after a long
weekend. I was like, you're going to end for a surprise. College is not that way, okay?
Carey Dukes [00:13:56]:
Exactly.Cheryl Broom [00:13:57]:
A professor sees a long weekend and.
Carey Dukes [00:13:59]:
They'Re like, I have two students, right, that are in three of my classes. It's weird, for some
reason they in it and they are hating life because they. All my tests are kind of sequenced in the
same, you know, over two days, for example. So yeah, and I don't know what the other
professors schedules are and we don't even look at them. We just, here's our curriculum, here's.
Oh, by the way, there's 16 weeks. Oh, there's 16 weeks in the semester. You want to have four
tests.
Carey Dukes [00:14:25]:
Well, guess what? Every four weeks we're all giving them a test and that just piles on them. So I
try to catch them before they get too far behind in the early part of the semester to say, look, it
doesn't matter. They can give you 10 tests a week if you prepare correctly. And so first be ready.
Cheryl Broom [00:14:43]:
And so I am. I have so many questions, but I have like one burning one as a mother. And I'm
gonna pause for a break here and then come back and have you tell me how my son did on the
assessment and what as a parent and as 11th grader he can take away. Because your book
really is meant for students.
Carey Dukes [00:15:05]:
Yeah, it is. No doubt about it.
Cheryl Broom [00:15:07]:
Right? But it's for students. So I'm super curious to hear what his takeaway is. So we're going to
pause and then come right back.
Carey Dukes [00:15:15]:
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Cheryl Broom [00:16:07]:
Okay, we're back. All right, so before the break, we were talking about the assessment in the
book and being ready for college and the six variables. And like I shared, I had my son take it
and he was really into it, which is very unusual. He wants nothing to do with me right now.Carey Dukes [00:16:23]:
I disagree.
Cheryl Broom [00:16:26]:
Tell me what, tell me how. What you learned and, you know. So I guess I should preface for
those listening, the student gets their assessment back. So he received this, though I asked him
to send it to me and he failed to do so. But he did receive it and he got to read it. So as we're
talking, for those out there who are teaching and are thinking this might be a great tool for them
to use in their classroom or parents who want to walk through this with their child, you do get to
see areas where they might need some support. So.
Carey Dukes [00:16:57]:
Oh, yeah, without a doubt. Yeah. The way I structured it is when they submit their assessment
every night at midnight, we run how many went through today and we create an email back
based on their score by variable. So it used to have a lot of verbiage, which I found was a little
bit because I'm a trucking guy at heart and I'm pretty direct. And they said, okay, stop writing the
responses and start doing videos because you sound really mean when you respond when
somebody struggles. So I did. So I created videos for each video for each assessment score,
regardless of what they made. And in your son's case, he.
Carey Dukes [00:17:36]:
Do you want me to tell you how he did?
Cheryl Broom [00:17:39]:
Curious.
Carey Dukes [00:17:39]:
So you were wrong about the fact that he doesn't value opinion. He highly values your opinion.
His contact Score was extremely high. He feels supported. He feels like people at home care
about him. He feels like if he had a problem, he had someone to go to. Extremely high in
context, that is the only one he was hiding. His value is not there yet.
Carey Dukes [00:18:03]:
And as a junior, I'm not surprised.
Cheryl Broom [00:18:05]:
Yeah, he's only 16.
Carey Dukes [00:18:06]:
He's only 16. Right. It's not a shock, which this tells me. He was honest about what he did. It
wasn't. He didn't just when you said he was, got into it. I believe that because his responses are
legitimate, real responses that I think a 16 year old would say, especially the way I lay thequestions out. As a, you know, for a college student, his informational assessment was he didn't
have enough, he didn't have enough commitment yet.
Carey Dukes [00:18:31]:
Because I don't think he did. I think ties somewhat in with him the way he responded based on
the commitment because of the, because he doesn't know what he needs to know. And then
Obviously, as a 16 year old, from an effort perspective, he's not done anything yet with some of
those questions. And I don't blame him because we don't talk about like preparing for the sat.
We talk about do you have your time schedule for your first semester, knowing which hours
you're going to study? So he could obviously not answer those questions because it's, it's really
tailored to a student that either is just beginning or it's over that summer between Christmas or
between graduation and, and starting your first year.
Cheryl Broom [00:19:12]:
And that's such an important time.
Carey Dukes [00:19:15]:
It is.
Cheryl Broom [00:19:16]:
Like, isn't the statistic something around 30% of students drop out their first year of college?
Carey Dukes [00:19:22]:
They don't come back. That's right. That's the number. Yeah. They may go to another institution,
but they don't come back to the one they originally chose.
Cheryl Broom [00:19:29]:
Yeah. And a lot of our listeners are at community colleges and that's even higher.
Carey Dukes [00:19:34]:
Oh, I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah. And they're even less ready for community college. And they,
they really struggle with that efficacy score. Right. Because they've been told maybe the whole
time they've been in college or high school. Oh, and this happened to my son because he was
not the best high school student.
Carey Dukes [00:19:51]:
All right, I'll give you that. But part of it was he was lazy. And I told him, I said, look, you can't
expect to get well again. This is why they don't let me write it. I have to say it because I do have
some empathy. Not a lot, but I have some. But if you're going to be lazy for two years and now
you want to try to make it up. No.
Carey Dukes [00:20:10]:
University of Georgia, when the ASAT scores are 1300 and above are not going to let you in. So
he went to a community college, but he made a 3.8 while he was there. And then he can getanywhere he wants. But if you didn't have, you know, he had me pushing him only mentally. I
didn't help him with any of the work, I just helped him with that piece. I wonder what he would
have scored. I think he would have scored high on context because we hold him accountable
and we call him out on. And I think you hold your son accountable, at least it seems like it.
Carey Dukes [00:20:39]:
And he knows he can trust you. So the other pieces and the right fit for him again as a university
is something I think you could have conversations around because 4 year versus 2 year initially
may be different for him than what maybe you have planned. And that's not a shot. But you don't
want to put them in a place where they're not going to be successful. You want to give them
every tool they can and that's why not even.
Cheryl Broom [00:21:05]:
What you have planned. But it's also pretty pressure.
Carey Dukes [00:21:08]:
Oh yeah.
Cheryl Broom [00:21:09]:
Like everyone else, I've talked to my son about community college and he, he's like, why would
I? Why would I? Nobody's going there. Like. But it's like that might be the best place for you.
You really want to be in a lecture hall with 800 people and no support like son or.
Carey Dukes [00:21:26]:
It's Dylan, right?
Cheryl Broom [00:21:27]:
Dylan. Yeah.
Carey Dukes [00:21:28]:
College is not a destination for a vacation. Yes. College is, is a means to an end for experiences
and all that. So you do what's right for you. And it may be an SEC school or an ACC school, but
just because it's a junior college or a community college, there's no. If you go there for one year
to get your ducks in a row and then transfer for three years to, I mean, Duke, guess what it says
on your, your degree when you graduate. It says Duke. Right.
Carey Dukes [00:22:03]:
So. And I just picked Duke. No. If anyone from Duke listens, don't get offended. I just picked any
college or institution. So I just want to get students aligned with where they really are.
Emotionally, physically, psychology, psychologically. So they don't.
Carey Dukes [00:22:18]:
So you don't have a 30% rate and you end up going somewhere and getting nothing out of that
first year except losing academic scholarships and being frustrated with an institution.Cheryl Broom [00:22:28]:
Exactly. So once you take this readiness to change assessment and you get into the Book, how
have you structured it? How was it structured to help students?
Carey Dukes [00:22:38]:
I originally set it up like a workbook. Okay. Because what I do is, for instance, I'll give you a
great example. The first week is what's a syllabus? How does the syllabus work? And then this
other one is. And I do this in week one. How many hours a week, Mr. Student or Ms. Student,
do you plan to study outside of the classroom? Okay, and I think I mentioned this to you before
because I teach.
Carey Dukes [00:23:06]:
This section came from teaching an Introduction to college section. I had 50 students that I
asked that question of. The answer was for 49 of them was zero. Because I'm not kidding, zero.
The 50th one said, well, on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays I have an hour between each
class. So I'm going to study those that hour. She said three. And I said, well that's actually only
two, but okay, you're going to get two hours a day, three days a week.
Carey Dukes [00:23:36]:
So that's six. And so I impress upon them and I kind of walk them through the math of what it
actually takes to be successful in college is more like 15 to 25 weeks hours. So now you're in
that 30 to 45 hours a week. So guess what? That sounds an awful lot like a full time job
because when you go to college that is exactly your full time job is to become a student and be
successful. And that's not true for all students. But for the majority, if they, if they follow that as a,
as a baseline, then they will, you know, they can, as time goes by, get better at it and the time
will go down. It's very hard to teach them to increase their study time. So that, that's how I
structure.
Carey Dukes [00:24:18]:
So the first week's, that second week is. And this came from me, Look, I, I tried to give quizzes
to students, you know, as part of my, to keep them very. They won't read, they won't read, they
don't study. So I just completely changed the way. And I did this in the book. I said, look, I'm not
asking you to read every single chapter for every single thing, but here's what you're going to
do. And I do this with my football players in their program. They have to create a PowerPoint
slide.
Carey Dukes [00:24:42]:
And there's four things to that slide. And this is the second part. And I actually was taught this by
my dissertation kamir chatting. This is how she showed me. She took notes and I kind of
modified it and I turned it into A method for study. Give me three themes from the chapter, three
to five. Put those themes in your own words and demonstrate you read the material. Give me
three to five questions that you think about in this topic and then a fourth slide that says nothing
but notes.Carey Dukes [00:25:09]:
And that way, when I'm lecturing the next week, guess what? They got all of that information in
one place. So the entire chapter the week before that is going to happen in school, they have all
that in front of them before they walk into class. Because when I gave them quizzes, they would
all fail the quizzes and then they would listen to the lecture and then they would try to pass the
test. That was the strategy for most students, and it still is because that's what they're taught in
high school, right? They're learned, they, they're fed the information. And my sons were, say
they were. Would refuse to take my classes because I would give quizzes before I would
lecture. They said, we're never taking your classes for anything.
Cheryl Broom [00:25:49]:
Yeah, I really like that though, because what I found with, with some of our younger employees,
and if any of them listened to it, it's not nobody we have employed right now, but we've seen
like, sometimes a lack of like critical thinking. It's like they've been pressed to just get good
grades and get through the class and get the work done, but they're not able to think deeper
about a topic or ask good questions or problem solve.
Carey Dukes [00:26:13]:
So that phrase is exactly why I teach this. Because have you ever asked a college classroom,
describe for me what critical thinking means?
Cheryl Broom [00:26:22]:
Yeah, I don't know if anybody, if they could.
Carey Dukes [00:26:24]:
You want to see a holy hush come over the crowd? You ask them that you. So I tell them, here's
the. We are supposed to be as educators teaching you to be critical thinkers. I give up on it. But
I say one of the things I teach is, you know, from an operations standpoint. I do this with all
processes. You know, identify the standard that I want to meet, find waste that's occurring that's
in suboptimal to what that standard is. And then I want to continuously improve based on those
three steps.
Carey Dukes [00:26:55]:
Guess what I just described to you? Which, by the way, they can understand that especially
when it comes to some process or operation that is critical thinking. You're taking a standard,
you're identifying the waste, and you're making a continuous improvement. And I tell them all to.
I want you to use that phrase during interviews because people on my side of the desk will
recognize you're doing critical Thinking without describing critical thinking.
Cheryl Broom [00:27:20]:
Well, this is a question that. That's a little bit off topic, but, I mean, it's about critical thinking, but
yeah, yeah. Covered in your book. I'm having a lunch and learn for my employees in a week
about critical thinking. Like, how do you get people started, like, working on that?Carey Dukes [00:27:37]:
How.
Cheryl Broom [00:27:38]:
How do you work on it?
Carey Dukes [00:27:40]:
I work on. I show them processes that are broken, and I say, okay, here's a broken process. Tell
me what it should look like. That's the standard. Tell me where the gap is and how can we make
it better? You don't call it. It's really lean. Right. It's lean thinking, which is an operational
strategy, but it really is critical thinking when you apply it to everything.
Carey Dukes [00:28:06]:
The problem is, Cheryl, that they hear that phrase, they can't describe it. At least my students,
they can't tell you what that means in words. But when you teach them that process I just went
through with you, they can remember that.
Cheryl Broom [00:28:20]:
That's great because, yeah, we hear like, we got, hey, we got the work done, but you didn't
solve the problem.
Carey Dukes [00:28:28]:
Right, exactly. And they're not taught this coming through high school at all. Right. And that's
why I say, you know, you can't. And you hear continuous improvement all the time as well. Well,
if you can't tell me where you're wasting things, then how can you possibly continually improve
something? So you first have to get rid of the stuff that's causing the problem. Now we can start
talking about continually making it better. And that's in process, like whoever your employers
are, whether it's a marketing strategy, it doesn't matter.
Carey Dukes [00:28:59]:
You can apply that to India. So I didn't mean to go off.
Cheryl Broom [00:29:02]:
Topic, but no, it's so fascinating and it's so timely. My clients are listening. I'm trying to help
develop it for staff, too. And I think that's such a great. A good activity because we can lecture
about it, but it's not actually going to teach people. I feel it's something you have to do.
Carey Dukes [00:29:20]:
Well, take an example of something that broke over the last six months and put that in a word
doc. And then say, okay, let's figure out what we should. What should this have looked like
versus what did we do? And then go from there.
Cheryl Broom [00:29:33]:Continual improvement is also really important.
Carey Dukes [00:29:37]:
Oh, yeah.
Cheryl Broom [00:29:37]:
And not just for students students, but for educational institutions. Because I see a lot of my
clients being like, we solve the problem or they get bored with something. We're done.
Carey Dukes [00:29:47]:
No, no, we measured. It wasn't that the goal. I mean, we measured it, so we must be done. It
doesn't matter. What, what does that mean?
Cheryl Broom [00:29:56]:
Exactly.
Carey Dukes [00:29:57]:
I don't get it. So actually I've talked to a couple of universities, not so much here because they
kind of were working together on our program, but I've talked to a couple of the universities and
they said, oh, we have a first year experience. And I said, yeah, five years ago your, your
dropout rate was 30%. Well, yeah, today your dropout rate is 35%. So do you want to keep
doing what you're doing or, you know, and I'm not, I'm not pushing back on anybody's process
and I'm not trying to replace first year because I actually see that as something different than
this. First year for the most places are building community with the. Between the student and
the institution. That is not what I'm doing.
Carey Dukes [00:30:35]:
I'm trying to tactically give them, arm them with tactics and strategies to be successful. So I see
it as complimentary.
Cheryl Broom [00:30:43]:
I think so too. And I actually was going to ask you about one of your tactics that I'd written in my
notes in your book. What are Bubba Buckets?
Carey Dukes [00:30:51]:
Ah, I love them. It's a way to remember time. Because I hate the phrase time management. I
absolutely can't stand it. Because when people talk about time management, it's so arbitrary.
Oh, of course. Everybody wants to measure time. I call them Bubba Buckets because I say
every morning, you take that, it's a one pager, it's got 168 squares on it which represent 168
hours of the week.
Carey Dukes [00:31:19]:
And you put in, what am I going to do under each one of these buckets? And you slap that on
the back of your dorm room door. And every money when you get up, you know what Bubbabucket am I going to work on this week? So if it's from 3 to 5pm I'm supposed to be studying this
or I'm supposed to be studying that. That's why I call them Bubba buckets, because it gives
them something to kind of remember it by. Because it's not time management, it's bucketing
your time, which is different.
Cheryl Broom [00:31:47]:
I love it and I love it when you say with your accent, bubba Bucket.
Carey Dukes [00:31:51]:
I grew up as a Bubba. That's what my, my sister couldn't say, brother, so she called me Bubba.
Cheryl Broom [00:31:55]:
She called you Bubba?
Carey Dukes [00:31:56]:
Yes, she did.
Cheryl Broom [00:31:57]:
So, you know, there is really something. I've been trying to teach this to my son too. There really
is something to writing down what you need to do.
Carey Dukes [00:32:07]:
I agree.
Cheryl Broom [00:32:08]:
Just write it down. We used to keep, you know, like, written calendars, and I wouldn't forget
things because I'd written. And we have our phones now, but there's something about sitting
down and writing it out and seeing it mapped out.
Carey Dukes [00:32:23]:
Well, it's. It's extra extreme efficiency. Because I used to do. When I first started supply chain, I
did dispatch, and people would call and they would ask me all these questions, and they would
come from everywhere, and I would write everything down that I was being asked to do. Well, I
couldn't go home until I'd crossed everything out. It didn't matter how long I was there until I. But
I never had to think about it and waste time remembering. I could always just go to that list and
say, yep, I got to do this.
Carey Dukes [00:32:53]:
And then I found it to be more efficient to write things down, which is why I do that with the time
buckets. Because if I know on Tuesdays at 2 o' clock, and I know every Tuesday morning, this is
my schedule today. Again, you get better at being a student over time. I'm looking for students
with less than a 3.0 or college freshman. Let's fix what's broken. Something's not working, and
let's fix it. Yeah.Cheryl Broom [00:33:19]:
And I know that you now have an online class for athletes.
Carey Dukes [00:33:22]:
I do.
Cheryl Broom [00:33:23]:
And their schedules are crazy.
Carey Dukes [00:33:25]:
It is. And they all tell me, oh, I don't have enough time to study. Which is even more reason to
go through this course because I. I streamline the work you have to do. So, yeah, I'm working
with the coaches, and I actually thought they would want the 2.5s and below. Right. Because
those are the ones struggling in the past. What I found was the athletes also want the 3.0s
because once they get.
Carey Dukes [00:33:45]:
Say you got a 2.8. Once he gets over a 3.0, now he's eligible for academic scholarships. And it
costs less football money. I didn't know that until I started working with some of the teams. So
they actually said, look, let's put Everybody below a 3.0 through your program because it's
working with the guys that we have, and it's taken the book and adapted it to a course, and then
I give them weekly feedback on how the individual students are doing. That's the only thing
about writing the book that I don't like, is I'm not able to see whether or not the people are
actively engaged with going through it. And so that. And other than the ones in My class,
because obviously I test.
Carey Dukes [00:34:24]:
Okay, we're going to do chapter one this week. You got to tell me something. You read in
chapter one. That's the one downside of writing a book and not doing it with the course. But you
can't do that with everyone. So I focus on football. We. We have a couple of soccer teams for
the fall.
Carey Dukes [00:34:37]:
We're talking to about it, implementing it. So it's a. It's been a lot of fun.
Cheryl Broom [00:34:41]:
Well, as a marketer, I think that you should follow up with some of the students a year after they
go through your class and see what they've implemented and where they are.
Carey Dukes [00:34:52]:
I will, but I'm also. I do follow up with students who've been through my process that are actually
have already graduated. I've got one of my football players that told me when he was a junior,
because a lot of the strategies that I teach in the book, obviously I got him. I taught him in the
classroom first. He told me, he said, if I would have learned to study like this, I would have neverfailed a class my entire life. He said, I can't believe how much easier this made it because he
would always wait to the day before the test and try to cram it all in there. And he was never
successful with this. They're doing a little bit every week.
Carey Dukes [00:35:26]:
I'm not asking him to write the War and Peace, it's just a little bit, but it is every week. And that
consistency builds on itself. So I will. I will try to figure out a better way from. As a market. I am
not a marketer. I will tell you that right now, but I will try to do that. Because we're.
Carey Dukes [00:35:44]:
We're measuring the GPAs now with the football teams, right? We're measuring. This is where
they were, this is where they are now. So I think that'll be an effective measure. But I would like.
I've asked all of them for feedback as they go through the course, and so they're writing notes
and stuff. So. But yeah, that's. That's not my thing.
Carey Dukes [00:36:00]:
I don't.
Cheryl Broom [00:36:01]:
I know. You got it. You gotta do it.
Carey Dukes [00:36:03]:
Because I don't. Look, I need help with marketing. I do. I do. But there are some things that are
inherently for talented people, and that is not my. I don't see the world that way. Right? I see a
problem, I try to fix it. That's just kind of.
Carey Dukes [00:36:21]:
So we all see the world differently. And I appreciate the value. It's just. I need to. I need to do. I
need to do a readiness assessment to come a good a marketer. Because right now I would
bomb it.
Cheryl Broom [00:36:32]:
Well, you do have a great message and it already helped in our household. I enjoyed very much
reading the book. It had a great conversation with my son. Super interested to learn about his
assessment. For those of out there who are listening that are interested in getting a copy of your
book or connecting with you, what's the best way to do that?
Carey Dukes [00:36:51]:
You can reach out to me at Carey@therci. You can just drop me an email and I can. Anybody
with the EDU email address, I can send you a link. I don't know if they call it a sample copy or
something that you can take a look at it and review it. I mean, if you don't have a email address,
it's available on Vital Source under Guide to Thrive. If you type in Vital Source Guide to Thrive,
it'll come up as the first option. It's Guide to Thrive. A Roadmap to College Success is the name
of the book and it's on Vitals.Carey Dukes [00:37:23]:
That's the only place I'm offering it right now as on Vital Source.
Cheryl Broom [00:37:26]:
Well, congratulations on getting it up and running and I think this message is just fantastic and I
can't wait to see where it takes you and all the students you're going to help.
Carey Dukes [00:37:36]:
Oh, that's the goal, right? That's the goal. Get them help, get their GPA up. Keep your academic
scholarship. Right? That's my goal. So if I. If I get them off academic probation and they keep
their scholarship, then we're ready and they're learning. So. And that's the goal.
Carey Dukes [00:37:52]:
So I can't thank you enough. I really enjoyed. I've been looking so forward to talking to you
because we've had such good conversations on the phone. So this was nice to have you.
Cheryl Broom [00:37:59]:
We've been through the flu, a flood, remodeling.
Carey Dukes [00:38:03]:
I think I had Covid one time. I mean, it's been awful. I mean, the flood down. Yeah, it was the
flood down here too, right? The hurricane flooded. Because this is going back months. We've
been trying to do this, so it's so great to finally get a chance to speak with you. I really
appreciate your time.
Cheryl Broom [00:38:19]:
Well, thank you, Carey.
Cheryl Broom [00:38:21]:
And that wraps up this episode of the Higher Education Conversations podcast. I'm host and
GradComm CEO Cheryl Broom. A big thank you to our sponsor, EdTechConnect. EdTech
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Cheryl Broom [00:39:00]:
Until next time.