Grad Comm Ep 62
Cheryl Broom: Gil, thanks so much for being here today. It's a pleasure to have
you on the podcast.
Gil Rogers: Of course, I'm, I'm excited to be here. This is gonna be fun.
Cheryl Broom: Now you are one of, I think you're the only guest of your kind
so far. So I definitely want you to start out by explaining what you do for a
living and how you got there.
Gil Rogers: Yeah, so if I'm the first of my kind, I'm either a trendsetter or I'm
an idiot, right? One of the two we’ll decide, see me in another year or two. We'll
figure out how that goes,
Cheryl Broom: Well, the fact that you're on this podcast means you're a
trendsetter.
Gil Rogers: Right, there you go!
Cheryl Broom: Yeah.
Gil Rogers: So, so I, yeah, so I'm, my job is a fractional CMO, right? And so,
about two years ago or so, I was let go or laid off from a ed tech startup. And
I've worked at ed tech startups essentially my whole career after working in a,
an admissions office at a couple of different private schools in the New England
area, right?
So I've always been in enrollment management, higher ed marketing, that space.
And then it's just been about what have I done right? Whether it's lead
generation or digital advertising or student retention, you know, the, all that sort
of work. And so when I was, when I was laid off, I thought, you know, do I
want to chase another startup and be another head of marketing at another small
place where I'm kind of fighting for table scraps and trying to, you know, get
my strategies going.
Or do I do what I like to do, which is kind of. Chase shiny objects and, and
work with really cool and fun ideas and do that for a couple of different places.
And so I started working as a fractional CMO a couple years ago, and I've been,
you know, been in and out of different clients over the past couple years.But my job is to help the company that I'm working with and supporting with
establishing their marketing strategy, developing their content plan, outlining
their KPIs. Some places I'll manage their marketing staff as a external
consultant, but in the role of the CMO others, I'll act as a kind of an individual
contributor to, to get projects moving forward, supporting the, the marketing
leadership.
A lot of it just depends on the need and the, and the scope of what they're doing.
But my true north is: Am I working in a place that's doing something to really
help support student outcomes and student success? And if they're doing those
things, then I'm, I'm happy to kind of step in to be the, the person that helps to
amplify that message or refine that message.
Because, you know, and, and you know this, you know, there's, there's no
shortage of, you know, founders and, and business leaders in the, in the
education technology world that have the, the next big solution that's gonna
solve all of higher education's problems. But a lot of times what they're missing
is understanding the language or understanding the landscape.
And that comes, that, that starts with marketing, right? And so that's, that's kind
of the work that I do.
Cheryl Broom: It's so interesting and I see this trend a little bit inside higher
education. It's been very hard for colleges we work with when their marketing
director leaves to find a suitable replacement. It's a very difficult job to fill
'cause there's so many responsibilities. So they often bring in what's called an
interim, but you’re a little bit different than a person that would actually sit in a
seat.
I mean you’re, it sounds like you can do your job for a couple different types of
companies at one time.
Gil Rogers: Yeah. And that's, and that's the main difference. And the key word
is fractional. Right? I think the for a fraction of the salary that you'd be paying
for a fraction of the time that you'd be paying someone in that role, right? The,
the, that's the, that's the difference, right? So am interim oftentimes is like a, is a
temporary full-time person, right?
Whereas fractional is providing that, that scope and that time, but not at a full
time basis. So I, I do a lot of time blocking. I do a lot of like working for this
client on this day and working for this client on that day, and we schedule
around those sorts of things. But with a fractional CMO, what you're reallypaying for is the, is the short term, fast input and rapid feedback, right? And
rapid output. You know, whether it's building out the content plan or the
marketing plan or KPIs or, or whatever it is. You'd be surprised at how, you
know, how, how fast a senior leadership person can do those sorts of things. I'm
not the only fractional CMO in the world, and they're, even though I'm the first
one on the podcast, I'm not the only one in the world.
The, the, the, there's, there's a certain level especially, and, and this is more on
the ed tech company side than the institution side where I think institutions tend
to value presence of a person in an office. They tend to value having a person
that can walk around the office and that sort of stuff.
Whereas a lot of the ed tech companies are, are distributed workforces, so it
doesn't really matter where that person sits and where they, where they, where
they make their dinner at night, right? It's what am I doing on the hours that I'm
dedicated to that company to drive that strategy forward?
Cheryl Broom: I know we have a lot of marketing directors that listen to this
podcast and they're probably like drooling at the idea that they can be a
marketing director that gets to work on strategy and, and quickness and not have
to attend a thousand meetings or run across campus. So I think it'd be a kind of a
dream job for a lot of people I work with.
Gil Rogers: Yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's interesting 'cause there are some days, I'll
be candid and say that there are some days where I'm like, I do miss sometimes
the singular focus of working for one company or for working for one school.
Right? But then I think about it, about the flexibility that I get to, you know,
before we hopped on and started recording, you know, I, I run my son's youth
hockey association.
I help coach his baseball team. I'm able to drop him off at school, right? And
these are things that I get to carve the work into the cracks of my life and not the
other way around. Right? And so it makes it so that there's an opportunity, and
again, when I'm working with a company, they have my singular focus during
that time. I joke 'cause my, my uncle years ago before he retired, he was talking
about how efficient he was in his job and one of his favorite things he would say
is, “I'm so efficient. I work 90 minute hours.” Right. Thinking, you know, the
communicating that I'm, I'm that good at my job that I'm, an hour of my time is
worth an hour and a half of somebody else's, right? And so it was a running gag
in the family for years. But now when I go to family gatherings, I get to kind of
say the same thing where it's like when it’s like you're working with me as afractional CMO, you're, you're getting the value of a full-time employee for a
fraction of what the, what you would invest.
And, you know, for a lot of these smaller and mid-size ed tech companies, the
challenge is, you know, obviously they have runway of their, you know, that
they need to think about as far as their funding. They need to think about the
expenses of their operation. They have to think about, you know, equity and
what they're giving to, to people in these senior roles and you know.
When they hire a full-time head of marketing or CMO or whatever fancy title
you want to call it, that's a big investment of time and effort and trust for them.
And what happens if it doesn't work out and that person isn't a great fit and
you've spent six months finding them, three months, recruiting them a month
and a half waiting for them to come because they got a wrap up, whatever they
were working on.
And then 2, 3, 4 months in you, you, you realize, ah, this, this person's not a
great fit, or they realize it's not a great fit. It's a, it's in a lot of ways, it's a, it's a
security policy from a leadership or it's an insurance policy, rather, from a
leadership perspective where you can work with me on a six month, eight
month, twelve month basis while also searching for that full-time person if that's
what you want to do, right?
But that way the, the lights get kept on the, the projects get going, the strategy
gets put in place, and you don't have to spend all those resources and time
finding that person to realize they're not a great fit.
Cheryl Broom: Yeah. And I love this idea and, and one of the reasons I wanted
to have you on the podcast is because you have such a breadth of knowledge
working across so many different ed tech companies. So I wanna ask you about
that. But I also want just to put like a little bug in people's ears. We get asked in
our company a lot if we do interim work and we don't, that's not what my
agency does.
But there's not any reason for colleges in between marketing directors to have to
go out and find an interim that's willing to come to campus when you have like
these people, like you Gil, that are out there, that are fractional, that can help
with strategy and decision making and get things set up while you hire the next
great person.
So I just think, something different to think about for educational institutions.Gil Rogers: And, and we, and we did this during COVID, right? Like
everybody was remote work during COVID. And I feel like there, the college
and university space overcorrected in a lot of ways. And there are still plenty of
remote people that are doing great work, but it's like regional admissions
counselors and that sort of stuff. But regional leadership, or remote leadership
people are, are a great opportunity to have the the best and brightest crayons in
the box, but not have to have them move and relocate to where you are, right?
And so for a lot of people, they want to, they want the, they want to be where
they live and they want a really cool job. And those two things don't necessarily
always overlap. And when given the choice, many people are choosing, they
want to stay where they are, and they're, they're gonna keep looking for that
great job, right?
And so if you could break that down and open up the opportunity for that, that
senior leadership person to have that flexibility to put their head on the pillow
wherever they want to be at night, while dedicating their time to, to you and
driving that strategy, that's a, that's a great opportunity for both.
And again, on the fractional side of it, it's, you're not putting all the effort of
bringing on a full-time person and all of the other bells and whistles that, that go
with it, just to find out that that person's not a great fit. Like I wouldn't tell this
to my clients even though they're gonna be listening to this podcast, but I'm
fireable, right? Quickly fireable. I'm a contractor, right? At the end of my
contract, which is usually six months, they, they, if they don't wanna work with
me anymore, you can go work with somebody else. You don't have to pay a
severance, you don't have to worry about losing out on equity. You don't have
to worry about any of that sort of stuff.
You, you get the high impact effort upfront. And then if it's not, if it's not a fit,
it's not a fit. And it's a much less risky endeavor to with, with much greater
upside potential.
Cheryl Broom: Yeah, for sure. I love it. I think it's a great solution. I was an
interim for four years at a college.
Gil Rogers: That's not interim!
Cheryl Broom: Not interim after a while. President just didn't wanna deal with
the hiring committee.
Gil Rogers: Yep.Cheryl Broom: I could have been a fractional CMO. I could have made the
same amount of money work from home.
Gil Rogers: Yep, probably!
Cheryl Broom: One of the cool things though that you get to do is you work
for, it's a bunch of different EdTech Connect. So I'd love to hear a little bit
about some of the trends that you're seeing uh, out there, some things that are
out that can possibly help colleges better serve students, and then any marketing
trends you might be seeing.
Gil Rogers: Yeah, yeah. So maybe I'll start by just sharing a couple of the
places that I'm working with and just give, I'll give some shout outs because I, I
love 'em all. I might not, I might not mention 'em all, and I'm sorry about that to
the ones that don't get mentioned.
Cheryl Broom: It's like the, it's like the Academy Awards, so if you forget,
like, don't forget the important one!
Gil Rogers: That's it! That's it. I mean, I'll, I'll start at, I mean, with my longest
running client, you know, HAI Analytics. They're, that's a, it's a small company
based out of Massachusetts.
Cheryl Broom: And we've had them on our podcast.
Gil Rogers: There we go! So yeah, so you've got, you know, Emily is amazing
and Jen is amazing and they do great work. And it's one of those, it's one of
those companies where there's so many, I call it the, and they're part of it too
'cause they have the letters in their name, but like it's the alphabet soup of
higher education, right? You've got the three letter acronym companies that
everybody uses and they bop back and forth between for marketing services and
financial aid leveraging and predictive modeling and all that sort of stuff. And if
you don't like this section of the alphabet, move to this section of the alphabet,
right?
But HAI is different in a sense that like, you know, the H stands for human
right? And, and they, in the age of artificial intelligence, they, they've
maintained that human element. And so, you know, they, they, have developed
a dashboard to help institutions with, with analyzing data and predictive
modeling. And they, they do some financially leveraging work for clients that
want to do that, that those sorts of things. And they've just been, you know, very
successful at supporting their, that kind of core group of, of folks. So I've beenhelping them a lot with content, right? If you go on their blog, they, you know,
regular blog content and social content and webinar plans forthcoming and
those sorts of things. But they, I've been working with them since almost the
beginning of my company, so they're, they're so shout out to, to HAI.
One of my other, one of my earlier clients was a company called Science
Interactive. And what Science Interactive does is they develop lab kits for
students who might be taking an online science course. So, you know, online,
online business courses and English courses and that sort of stuff are, are pretty
straightforward, right? You don't need. Like a hands-on element to, you don't
need to be able to touch and feel things to do the, the, the online business
program. You need to be able to use software in those programs. But you don't
need to, you don't need to, to dissect a frog.
Cheryl Broom: Right.
Gil Rogers: You don't need to, you know, do you know chemical experiments
and those sorts of things. But if I'm a student at, in a rural area that is taking an
online biology course, and I don't have a lab component, now if I want to
transfer from my local community college to a four year school, that class is not
transferable. So it's an, it's an equity issue, it's an accessibility issue of content.
And so they develop these, these lab kits that accompany the curriculum for
online science programs.
So that institutions can accommodate those remote students or not have to spend
$20 billion building a new biology building. ‘Cause that'll take five years and it
won't, and by the time that happens, demand declines for the program and then
they're screwed, right? And so it's, so they, so they're able to supplement their,
their, lab space with these sorts of things.
That was an interesting case because I wasn't brought on to be the head of
marketing. They actually had, and still have, an amazing vice president of
marketing who's smart, sharp, driven, does great work. Her issue was when I
came on to help, she was a department of one. And she had to run the work with
the ad agency, she had to work the, the PR firm. She had to work the, the
website redesign project, all of that stuff. And she literally needed someone to
push day-to-day projects forward and needed a strong number two, right? And
so I came on as kind of a strong number two for day-to-day things, for content
and for social and for webinars and events and those sorts of things. After the
first six months they hired a couple of junior level folks and I transitioned into
kind of training and handoff mode. So for them, the following six months as
they brought on people to do those jobs, I was able to pass on thoseresponsibilities. And then I disappear and say, hey, great working with you.
Love ya. Still, still text with people there and still stay connected because we
didn't separate because I sucked, we separated 'cause I did the job, helped them
build it, and then I walked away. Maybe I did suck and they didn't tell me and
they're really nice, but I, I don't think I sucked, right? And so, so those, that's,
those are the kind of like great opportunities and, and you know, things I, I
hosted a podcast for, for a little bit as well, which is why I think my microphone
is pretty good because I still have it.
Cheryl Broom: Yeah, it does sound great! I was actually thinking he's got one
of the best sounding-
Gil Rogers: There we go. Still using that, won a couple awards doing that. That
was fun. And right now I'm working, there's a couple of small project things
that I'm working on, so they're not super public. But it's every, everything is
kind of focused on helping students with overcoming challenges, you know, in
the scholarships, financial aid space and that sort of stuff.
And so it's and I and right in my, I'm also working with a, with Immersify.
They're a dental education and nursing education curriculum program with a
mobile app with AI and AR and immersive technology. And they're based in the
UK and building their US market. And so I've, I've had the opportunity to, to
work with, again, you know, digital marketing, lead gen, academic curriculum
development and design, learning design. You name it, I've probably touched it
at this point in the space. So it's been, it's been a lot of, a lot of learning on the
job and a lot of fun.
Cheryl Broom: As you're talking and explaining about those companies that
you work with now, it seems like the common thread between them all is they're
all really trying to, to help students succeed, especially maybe students who
come from like a non-traditional background, right? They're looking at serving a
student population in new ways or predicting how that population might need
extra help or extra support.
Gil Rogers: Yeah. I mean when you look at the work, HAI does, right?
Especially, and it's interesting or challenging in, in the political climate that
we're in, right, is like how to, how do institutions that wanna still support access
and equity do so without saying the words out loud, unfortunately. Right? How
do we do, you know, and so working and navigating through those sorts of, of
issues and challenges.And then you have companies that, one I did not mention, but was a great
partnership for two years or so, is Ease Learning. Ease Learning is a curriculum
design company that, that learning design, they develop the curriculum for
online programs, right? And so they're really focused on skills-based learning
credentials, stackable credentials, micro learning you know, apprenticeship
programs. And these are all a different, preparing the workforce for the, with the
skills that they need for the jobs of today and tomorrow. Right? And so it's, like
I said, if my true north is working with companies that are developing programs
or platforms or, or software or whatever it is to support student outcomes and
student success.
That's where I'm gonna, I'm gonna really get the most excited about my work.
Cheryl Broom: Yeah, I wanna ask you a little bit about how colleges can best
work with ed tech companies. But before we do that, let's take a little break.
Okay. We just heard from our sponsor, EdTech Connect, which does a listing of
EdTech companies all over the nation. And Gil is a fractional CMO for a lot of
different ed tech companies and higher education firms and companies that
work in that space.
Before the break, you were talking just about the different types of places you
work, and I was thinking back to my days at a college and going out and trying
to find a solution for any problem I might have. Maybe it's like a website or I
want a new website, or I need some analytics assistance. Or you know, maybe
somebody's come and been like, do you know any company that does science
kits? Right? Like that I can get, you know, in the lab. And a lot of times it's
overwhelming. Like you don't know where to start, like what to look at, who to
call. Like, what are some things that you think colleges should be looking at? At
least from your perspective in marketing and sales, like what questions should
they be asking companies? How do you vet, like what's gonna be a good fit for
your institution? What are some things that you're putting out as a marketer to
try to get colleges or universities to think about you being the best solution?
Gil Rogers: Yeah, I, I think that one of the things that I, that I work with a lot
with my clients on is, one being likable, which is, you know, it's an underrated
attribute. There are so many, again, ed tech companies. A lot of the founders
don't come from higher ed, so they, they, they're great people. They have great
ideas, but they get frustrated about the long sales cycle and the relationship
element of sales and how, why does it take so long and all these sorts of things.There are benefits to longer sales cycles, right? Longer sales cycles oftentimes
lead to longer term contracts. They lead to stickier contracts. They lead to a
better relationship in the long term, 'cause there's a better understanding of, of
what the needs are and working together. But you know, obviously when you're
under the, under the lights of your, your private equity firm trying to figure out
what, why, you're not hitting your quarterly numbers, that's hard, right?
And so what I, but what I try to do is help my, my clients understand that, you
know, you can't underinvest in helpful content, right, and helpful resources. And
being the company that when I have a problem related to X, I think about this
company. Right? And so, that's why a lot of my work with the companies I
work with is focused on creating blog content, creating resource guides, email
campaigns that are not buy now, buy now, buy now. But hey, have you thought
about this? Hey, here's a resource. Hey, here's a resource. Because then those
inbound leads to sales, quote unquote inbound leads come in that process. Or
when you're at the trade show or exhibit the exhibit hall at the conference the,
the people recognize you because, oh, yeah, I get emails from you.
People get a lot of emails! So if they remember that they get emails from you in
a positive way, that's a good thing, right? And they're not gonna read every
single one. They're not gonna download every single guide. But they know that
you're the company that's going to support them with whatever your unique, you
know, value prop is, right?
And so I think from a, for institutions, it's kind of, you know, really think about
it from a space of there are other industries outside of higher education where
these people could be investing their time and resources and energy and
probably make more money if they get it right as far as the software they're
developing or the approach that they're taking, right. But they, they do it in
higher ed because majority of these companies are working from a place of,
they want to help students be better because they see all these problems. Many
of these ed tech startups are created by people who had a problem themselves
and said, I want to fix this problem because it impacted me. And then they
create a business out of it.
Right? The, so when you, if you come at this with a, with the angle of vendors
are bad, vendors are terrible, they're just in it to make a buck, right? The reality
is, is that that's not the case for the majority of service providers or quote
unquote vendors in the, in the higher ed space. They want to be your partner and
they want to help you solve problems.And for the most, for good salespeople at these companies, which most of these
places have good salespeople, they don't wanna work with someone who doesn't
want isn't a good fit. They just want to get a response. They want to know, hey,
are you a good fit? And so, you know, having this, there are people on, on
LinkedIn, the keyboard warriors complaining about vendors and outreach and
that sort of stuff. There are more good people working on solving student
problems than there are people who are just trying to create a problem, to make
a buck. Right? And I think go into it with trust. Go into it with, look for the
likable companies, 'cause the likable companies are the helpers, right? And find
the helpers 'cause they're the ones who are gonna help solve the problems.
Cheryl Broom: You just had like so many good points that you said that I
wanna touch on. But first, your email comment cracks me up because just
yesterday I had a college reach out for some marketing help and their marketing
director said, “You know, I've heard so many great things about your
company!” and I was like, “Oh, that's great.” And I had just assumed that he
was a referral. And I was like, “Oh, where'd you hear?” He's like, “I don't know
where I heard about you.” And we talked for a while and at the end of the
conversation I said, “Oh, I'm gonna put you on our email list, 'cause we do a
weekly like newsletter and our newsletters really, it's really to help. It's not
sales, it's like information.”
Gil Rogers: Yeah!
Cheryl Broom: And I gave it to my marketing director and she put him in.
She's like, “He's been a subscriber since 2021!” A 4 year subscriber to the
newsletter. That's how he's heard of us, is getting the newsletter.
Gil Rogers: Yep. Yep. And he likes you!
Cheryl Broom: And he likes us. But he doesn't remember that he got the email
and people are always like, oh, email, email. But it really does work. I mean,
they may not remember they read about you in an email, but they are gonna
remember you for sure, so.
Gil Rogers: Yeah. Well, and it's, and it's obvious like there's, there's
recommendations that people come back with for, you know, email marketing
and best practices. And it's one of those things like, do we have to make the
recommendation that you should make email personalized at this point, right?
Like, we probably shouldn't have to make that recommendation, especially if
you're a marketer, right?But the definition of personalized is different, right? Dear first name is not
personalized. Dear first name is table stakes. Personalized is email that is based
off of a specific action or behavior or need or demonstrated need or a
subscription or what have you, right? Not just mass emails for the purposes of
mass emails.
Those are what make you not likable is when you start sending out a bunch of
just spam. And it's interesting because. I'll, I'll pick on the admissions people for
a minute. They, they complain so much about getting so many mass emails
from companies that they've never heard of that just wanna sell them stuff. But
then they'll turn around and they'll build these email campaigns to recruit
students that they've bought names from that are impersonal. And they, and the
students are getting bombarded with emails from schools they've never heard of
before, right? And so you can't, it, what's good for the goose is good for the
gander sometimes, right?
Like especially when the companies who are reaching out are the companies
who wanna help them do better at student recruitment. And they get frustrated
because, but, but then the irony of, if you're bad at email marketing to the
college, how are you gonna help that college do well with email marketing to
students, right?
Cheryl Broom: Exactly!
Gil Rogers: But I will say as a fractional CMO, there is a difference between
B2B marketing and B2C marketing. Right? And so the, the companies that are
marketing to, to the school might be really good at marketing to students, but
they stink at marketing to the school. And that's where people like me come in,
is help them with improving those things.
Cheryl Broom: Right. Yeah, and I, but I think there are some lessons that are
great to learn from, you know, like what you are doing, which is you know,
B2B, basically. Like you're helping businesses get business from colleges. And
this whole likability thing is so important for colleges to think about themselves
because, especially those community colleges out there. Because you are part of
the community and when people start liking you, they start talking about you
and that can drive enrollment. And I think that marketing often doesn't have a
chance to really like showcase the ways that their college is super likable.
I mean, anything from, I remember at my old college, we wanted to hold a
farmer's market for years with the like perfect location right next to a strawberry
field. That makes you likable, but it was a fight 'cause nobody wanted to do thework. But then once we finally got the farmer's market to come, all you'd hear
about from people is how great the colleges have never been here. Oh, it's so
beautiful. Wow, I didn't know that you had a, a biotechnology facility or a
horticulture lab like, wow! And you know, it's all from doing something to help
people. Not necessarily to market your programs, but to get them to like you.
Gil Rogers: Yep! I mean, I'll say one of the, one of the best things we ever did
when I was a, I was a senior associate director at the University of New Haven
in Connecticut. That was my last college that I worked at full-time, right. One
of the things we created, and this was a landmark thing at the time, was because
all of our, all of our name buy vendors were telling us buy names earlier here,
here buy a list of sophomores. We're like, we don't have anything for
sophomores. Like, what, what are we gonna see?
Cheryl Broom: Yeah, you're not gonna come in as a sophomore.
Gil Rogers: ‘Cause all of our com flows were apply now, apply now, apply
now, right? So it was one of those, so what do we do? So we created a
marketing piece called The Sophomores Guide to College, presented by the
University of New Haven.
But 95% of the book was literally just college planning resources. And then we
had like an ad on the back page for our, for our school. Right. And like and
obviously when there was, if you need help with financial aid and that sort of
stuff, here's our financial aid office's number. Like, if you need help with
admissions outreach, like go to this page and find your admissions officer.
But it wasn't apply now, apply now, apply now. 'cause that it's a sophomore, and
they're not going to apply now, right? But you need to build a relationship,
right? And I think that that's, that's where, you know, this is gonna be a
complete left turn in the conversation. But that's where the challenge with things
like direct admission come in, right, is like institutions just automatically just
skip to the, hey, you've been admitted, now, enroll, enroll, enroll. That's
expensive lead gen. Right? The reason why localized programs work better
localized directed mission programs work better is because of things like you
just mentioned. You hosted events on campus. They've been there, they know
who you are. Even if they haven't applied, but they're admitted by virtue of the
fact that they're in the backyard meet the criteria. They have a relationship.
You're liked because they've been around, versus just letting every kid from,
from, you know, I'm in Maine, you're in San Diego. I happen to buy a list of, of
names from San Diego, right? Like, it's not that, that, that's not the same feeling
as the kid from down the road that passes your campus every single day.Cheryl Broom: Yeah, exactly. And I think another part of likability, when the
conversation earlier when you were talking about finding a company that you
like that I think is really important, and this is kind of like self-serving, but I
really do believe in it. When you're looking, for a, a partner you really do wanna
find someone that has experience in higher education.
Like every, like third party I hired or was involved with at my college that didn't
come from a higher ed background, like burned. Like crashed and burned. So I
think that was such a great tip. You know, when you're out there looking for a
new partner, you're not just looking for a vendor, you're looking for someone
that has experience and passion and knows what you do.
Gil Rogers: Yeah, yeah. And 'cause I mean, it's a great point. Even from like
software perspective, the companies that build software specifically for higher
education applications versus just like the off the shelf stuff. The off the shelf
stuff might have better features. It might have a better, like it might look cleaner
and prettier and shinier and whatever. 'Cause they have billion dollar market cap
'cause it's a publicly traded company. Or they, they have, you know, a bajillion
dollars in, in private equity or venture capital behind them or whatever. These
smaller companies that are, are building something specifically for higher ed,
one, they're gonna, they're gonna adapt and adjust themselves based on
feedback a lot more quickly than others, right, because they're not building for
the masses. They're building specifically for higher ed. And from the company
side of things, that's the, that's the likability factor coming in. A lot of times
admissions officers and marketing directors and, and you name the role on the
campus, they're gonna go with the provider that they like more than the provider
that they don't, more often than not. Even if the company they like doesn't have
as many shiny bells and whistles and tools. Because what does like lead to, like
leads to trust. Trust leads to purchase. Right? And so they're, if they like you,
they're gonna trust you. They're more likely to trust you, and they're more likely
to then purchase from your company. Right? And so it becomes a, it becomes
just a great value in your entire marketing strategy is just being likable.
Cheryl Broom: A hundred percent. And people notice bad service before they
notice a bad product, so.
Gil Rogers: Yep. I mean, yeah, that's a great point. I think one of the other, it's
funny, every, every tech company that wants to say they're a SaaS solution.
When they do the surveys of their, of their customers and ask what their favorite
things are. It's always my account executive, right? Like it's never the, it's neverthe features and the tools. It's always, oh yeah, the team is great. It's like, but
we're a SaS offering, you're not supposed to need the team!
Cheryl Broom: Yeah. Well, it's true, like if you go on Yelp and look in a
restaurant, like I'll go and be like, oh, why does this place have one star
reviews? It's always because of the, the waiter or the waitress is rude, not the
food's great, but one because the waiter sucks.
Gil Rogers: Yeah. Yeah. It's, that's what it is. And it's, it's just, and that's where
like, I think a big part of the issue for, and it's, it's starting to change a little bit
in the, in the tech company side anyway, is there was all this like. This is for,
for people who don't care about the business element of these things, maybe
skip the next 30 seconds of the podcast.
But like the issue is, is that the, the valuation of these companies was predicated
on being a SaaS offering, right? And like looking at the multiplier on the
company, it's like, oh, we're gonna get a five x multiplier on revenue because it's
a SaaS offering and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the reality is, is all these
companies are not SaaS companies. They're SwS companies. They're software
with service, right? And so, that's the challenge that so many places kind of run
into is like, they, they want to be a, they wanna be a software company. But if
they don't have the client support, the client services, client success, whatever
you want to call it, role helping the client with using the product, then the client
doesn't use the product, then they don't see value, then they don't renew, and
then your renewal numbers are trash, right? So what would you rather be like?
Invest, invest in people, keep your company or not, and then tank your renewals
and then your, your private equity gets mad at you for your bad renewal rate,
right? So you're never gonna win.
Cheryl Broom: Well, I think it's a great thing to, to wrap up the podcast on a
great thought is that we can't forget the human relationship and the importance
of that relationship when it comes to hiring a partner or a vendor, but also when
it comes to recruiting a student. I mean, it is key. It's the most important thing.
You can have all the shiny bells and whistles and tools, but at the end of the
day, if you don't like who you're working with or you don't like where you're
going, you're not gonna go there. You're not gonna last there. So, yeah.
Gil Rogers: Absolutely. Couldn’t say it better myself.Cheryl Broom: And yeah, and as marketers, you know, we've, we're pushed to
show statistics and numbers and data, but these are important things to look at
as well and some of them aren't measurable.
Well, I've had a great time talking to you. I love your, your job. I know that
you're doing most of this for ed tech companies, but I'm sure there's colleges out
there that are interested in this model as well. So, is there a way people can get
ahold of you where they can reach you if they wanna talk more?
Gil Rogers: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. I've been
lurking there more than contributing the past few months, but that's because I'm
too busy doing my job to do my job sometimes.
Cheryl Broom: Aren't all marketers like that, though? We're so busy
marketing.
Gil Rogers: Yep, absolutely. Or just gil@gr7marketing.com. Shoot me an
email. Those are the two best ways to find me, or smoke if you're sending
smoke signals, I live in the northeast corner of the country, so I'll, I'll keep an
eye out.
Cheryl Broom: Well, it's been great to talk to you and I hope that next time we
connect that you've been successful in building your kids' hockey rink. So, any
hockey fans listening, Gil needs some help getting a hockey rink built in his
town.
Gil Rogers: That’s it! Gimme, if you got $5 million, give me a call. Uh, I can
help you. I can help you with that. I can help you with that.
Cheryl Broom: Well, thank you so much for being a guest. I really enjoyed the
conversation.
Gil Rogers: Thanks, Cheryl. Appreciate it. Have a good one.